SOT THE CARB AGAIN!

[PatK]

I need to replace the twin HS6s SU carbs on my 2L Mk2 Vitesse. Thank you all for spotting the carbs and manifold in my previous post which turned out to be for a Triumph 2000, and not for a Vitesse 2L Mk2, and giving me details of the springs etc.for the 2000.

I have now managed to get a Vitesse Mk2 2L manifold and have just put the two Stromberg 150 CDs on it, that I bought last spring. However I'm now confused again because these carbs have 2 different numbers on them as you can see from the photo below,  3116R for the right hand carb and 3166N for the left hand carb. So the first question,  is this a correct pair and are these for a Vitesse 2L Mk2?

Secondly, looking at the 3rd photo you will see that the throttle cable connector bracket is too far to the left to work the throttle on the LH carb, and more importantly the throttle works in reverse, rotating clockwise to open and is closed at the 12 O'clock position, which makes me think that it is for an accelerator using a solid rod system instead of the cable system as fitted to my car. The carbs also have individual chokes which put a blanking plate up into the mouth. Also does anyone know the correct needle and spring for a 2L Mk2 Vitesse?

So all you kind folk any info on this would be much appreciated

[Colin Lindsay]

Original Vitesse carbs are (I think!) 3137F and 3138R front and rear respectively.

3116R is a 150CD from a 2000 saloon; the closest I can find for a 3166 is a 150CD from a Triumph Toledo but it doesn't have the 'N' suffix.

No doubt wiser than I will be able to advise properly but at a guess I'd hope that the bodies are suitable and a pair, and all you need to do is match brackets, needles and springs, but there may be variations in vacuum take-offs etc.

I think Vitesse needles were the same as the Herald 13/60 ie 6J.

 

[PatK]

Thanks Colin that confirmed my suspicions that they were not a pair and not a Vitesse 2L type, looks like Im going to have to search again.  Thanks Colin,       Pat

[Colin Lindsay]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-2000-VITESSE-GT6-STROMBERG-CD150-TWIN-CARBS-CARBURETTORS/352850477684?epid=14009151667&hash=item5227870274%3Ag%3A0jcAAOSw3ehdnvfP&LH_ItemCondition=3000

 

I've just found that pair and if they're as good as the seller claims they're definitely worth a punt.

[Pete Lewis]

good price but will still have the 2000 saloon manifold angle to correct

pete

[daverclasper]

I have read a few different opinions and some suggest that all the bodies and pistons etc have all been machined pretty the much the same (I guess you wouldn't be able to obtain suitably sized replacement pistons otherwise) therefore, don't have to be pairs etc?

Dave 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by daverclasper

[Guest]

Hello Pat,

I have attached a few photos to show how the accelerator cable connects to the carb throttle arm - in essence your set-up is missing the angled section which is critical to align the moving parts correctly.

Neither carb you state is correct for your Vitesse and in fact you are going to struggle to make them work together - if at all. 

3166 is a 150CD Stromberg for a Herald 13/60 [67-71] as to 3116, Colin's answer is spot-on with the Triumph 2000 [66-69]

Vitesse Mk2 carbs should read 3224F and 3224R - these being 150CDS, the earlier models ran with 3137F and 3137R - these being 150CD

Needles for the Mk2 are 6AC with a BLUE spring, whereas the earlier Vitesse used 6J and a NATURAL colour spring. 

Do not be tempted to use a pair of emission controlled or blanked off emission controlled 150's; it is a hopeless exercise and the car will never run properly. I know via experience, with no thanks to Andrew Turner of Turner Carbs !!!

Hope the above assists.

Regards.

Richard.

 

[Paul H]

I went down the same route with Andrew Turner and purchased a pair of CDSE for my mk2 Vitesse . They were shiny , almost mirror finish and looked brand new. Unfortunately the jets were set at different heights and one jet was bent , plus one of the float bowls had been over polished and leaked ., plus the choke section leaked 

I was in too much of a hurry and fell for the sales patter that whilst they were for a mk3 GT6 they were fine ( with a change of jets ) . It took some time to remedy the faults and they are doing the job , I have since purchased a pair of CD150’s which I intend to overhaul and replace . Best advice is to overhaul yourself , all the help one needs is on this forum 

Paul 

[Colin Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Best advice is to overhaul yourself , all the help one needs is on this forum 

Paul 

Easily done, in fact the only problem I ever had was with the spindle bushes and that was down to me rather than the carbs or the parts... but easily sorted in the end.

[PatK]

15 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-2000-VITESSE-GT6-STROMBERG-CD150-TWIN-CARBS-CARBURETTORS/352850477684?epid=14009151667&hash=item5227870274%3Ag%3A0jcAAOSw3ehdnvfP&LH_ItemCondition=3000

 

I've just found that pair and if they're as good as the seller claims they're definitely worth a punt.

Thanks Colin, I bought a similar pair recently, in good condition and I suppose I can fit them to my Vitesse Mk2 manifold and split the crankcase breather into two and feed each carb from this and blank off the manifold breather pipe. 

[Pete Lewis]

no I would    keep the smiths valve and blank the carb breather intakes  or the mixture with std 2ltr vitesse  needles will be wrong

due to a change in where the breathing air is introduced .

pete

[PatK]

2 hours ago, classiclife said:

Hello Pat,

I have attached a few photos to show how the accelerator cable connects to the carb throttle arm - in essence your set-up is missing the angled section which is critical to align the moving parts correctly.

Neither carb you state is correct for your Vitesse and in fact you are going to struggle to make them work together - if at all. 

3166 is a 150CD Stromberg for a Herald 13/60 [67-71] as to 3116, Colin's answer is spot-on with the Triumph 2000 [66-69]

Vitesse Mk2 carbs should read 3224F and 3224R - these being 150CDS, the earlier models ran with 3137F and 3137R - these being 150CD

Needles for the Mk2 are 6AC with a BLUE spring, whereas the earlier Vitesse used 6J and a NATURAL colour spring. 

Do not be tempted to use a pair of emission controlled or blanked off emission controlled 150's; it is a hopeless exercise and the car will never run properly. I know via experience, with no thanks to Andrew Turner of Turner Carbs !!!

Hope the above assists.

Regards.

Richard.

 

Richard, that is so helpful, and I'm sure that it will help others who join the Club and are restoring their cars. I mentioned in a previous post that we ( the Club ) should have reference photos of our cars and your photos should take pride of place. Also many thanks for the info on Turner Carbs, you have just saved me a lot of money!. Many Thanks Richard. Pat

[PatK]

4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

no I would    keep the smiths valve and blank the carb breather intakes  or the mixture with std 2ltr vitesse  needles will be wrong

due to a change in where the breathing air is introduced .

pete

Thanks Pete, really good info, I've just bought a Smiths Breather valve from the Spitfire Graveyard so it won't be another redundant purchase after all! Thanks  Pete

[PatK]

13 hours ago, daverclasper said:

I have read a few different opinions and some suggest that all the bodies and pistons etc have all been machined pretty the much the same (I guess you wouldn't be able to obtain suitably sized replacement pistons otherwise) therefore, don't have to be pairs etc?

Dave 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dave, I'm a Stromberg virgin and have a lot to learn about them.  Pat

[PatK]

1 hour ago, Paul H said:

I went down the same route with Andrew Turner and purchased a pair of CDSE for my mk2 Vitesse . They were shiny , almost mirror finish and looked brand new. Unfortunately the jets were set at different heights and one jet was bent , plus one of the float bowls had been over polished and leaked ., plus the choke section leaked 

I was in too much of a hurry and fell for the sales patter that whilst they were for a mk3 GT6 they were fine ( with a change of jets ) . It took some time to remedy the faults and they are doing the job , I have since purchased a pair of CD150’s which I intend to overhaul and replace . Best advice is to overhaul yourself , all the help one needs is on this forum 

Paul 

Many Thanks Paul, your advice is very helpful.  It has stopped me making a very expensive mistake with Turner Carbs as he was going to overhaul the dud pair that I have for £425!

Thanks Paul.   Pat

[PatK]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

no I would    keep the smiths valve and blank the carb breather intakes  or the mixture with std 2ltr vitesse  needles will be wrong

due to a change in where the breathing air is introduced .

pete

Thanks Pete. Will I have to change the needles and springs, fitted are B5DG and Blue springs, and can I still get 6AC needles which Richard says are the correct ones. My big problem Pete is I'm sure the engine has had a lot of top end work done and then fitted with twin SU HS6s. but I have no history. But as you said the engine seems over carburettored with HS6s and always seems to run rich. There is not much power below 2000rpm and then it comes in strong which makes me think that the camshaft may have been changed or doctored. I suppose the lesson is always buy a car with a history file! Thanks Pete.    Pat

[Pete Lewis]

they dont need to be shiny to work ,   i have encounter a number of shiny disasters ...unimpressed 

all is easy and generally available DIY ,  the only delicate and accurate job would be if the spindle bores need re boring and bushing  if bushes are not already fitted 

luckily most wear the spindle far more than the bore and a new one makes a workable compromise

most will only need at the most some 0 rings, a jet , a needle and float valve, maybe some fine wet and dry to reface the choke discs on starter valves

gaskets kits contain a selection as the float  bowl periphery did change shape over the years which can leave gaps if wrong gasket is selected 

if you want to make them shiny a light spray of chrome paint will last years and ...Cheap

temp compensators if fitted  need two 0 rings and set them closed at normal working temperatures

diaphragms must be soft and flexible not made from recycled elephant condoms !!! there are some awfull ones out there .

Pete

 

 

    

[Pete Lewis]

well you could blame the guy who looked at the car for you..........Ha 

I remember the gearbox was poor , and supposed to be changed    Hmmmmmm  !!!   couldnt see the Camshaft  but warned against why the HS6's 

one day it will all come together 

my dad always said they have more reasons  to sell it than you have to buy it 

rings a bell in life of cars 

Pete

[PatK]

Thanks Pete duly noted, do you know if I can still get 6AC needles as I read that there are only a few different needles available.    Thanks Pete.    Pat

[Pete Lewis]

more fun and games   

B5DG is looking a biased needle  from a CD3    top adjusting !!!

6AC is fixed   bottom adjusting 

pretty sure  a  6AC will not  fit your air piston   bore ???  as very different design

it will probably run ok on B5DG   set these with the small derin washer on the needle flush with the base of the air piston 

use an long allen key down the dashpot tube 

Pete

 

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

no I would    keep the smiths valve and blank the carb breather intakes  or the mixture with std 2ltr vitesse  needles will be wrong

due to a change in where the breathing air is introduced .

When I first got Vit, it was breathing direct into centre of filter box. This made the filters a bit oily and was always running pretty rich low down. Managed to get valve,bracket,hoses and connecting hose stub into manifold for a tenner of Ebay. Since then the mixture is lot more stable accross the range.  

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, PatK said:

Many Thanks Paul, your advice is very helpful.  It has stopped me making a very expensive mistake with Turner Carbs as he was going to overhaul the dud pair that I have for £425!

Thanks Paul.   Pat

I paid £360 to Andrew Turner for a pair of refurb CDSE’s which weren’t fit for purpose 

Lesson learnt 

Paul 

[johny]

outside of fitting bushes and line reaming them for the spindles there really is very little to 'overhauling' Strombergs - once youve bought the bits your 90% of the way there....

[Guest]

2 hours ago, PatK said:

do you know if I can still get 6AC needles as I read that there are only a few different needles available.

Hello Pat,

Yes all the Stromberg needles are available via the usual suspects.

I have always rated Stromberg carbs but they often get poor press when compare to the SU - there are no grounds for that and a Stromberg in decent condition will easily hold its own.

The only edge that SU has over Stromberg carbs is the needle range.

When I first purchased my Mk2, the carbs were in an awful state with serious wear on just about anything that could wear. On selling my "Turner blocked off emission carbs" thankfully at no loss, I got Gower & Lee to overhaul my original Vitesse carbs. The company did a superb job and they are still in top form, which must be almost ten years ago now; ironically the overhaul cost was less than Turner's carbs - you live and learn !!

I totally agree with johny and Paul H that once your cabs are working correctly and efficiently, then everything else is easily done at home with the assistance of this Forum. How lucky are we ??

Regards.

Richard.

[daverclasper]

Have found that when set up properly and car used regularly, Stroms don't need to be messed with often