Herald Chassis Tolerance?

[Tom]

Hello,

being doing some welding on my Herald chassis around the diff area.

Using a spirit level I created two points at the front that were level. I then supported the chassis at the front and used a spirit level again to check between the main chassis rails at various points in front and behind the sump to ensure the chassis was sitting as level as possible.

I then supported the chassis at the rear just in front of the front diff mounting points, again using a spirit level to ensure the front and rear of the chassis were sitting level to each ( as much as possible given the situation.

I then put the spirit level on the rear tub top mounting points and attempted to keep that as level as poss when removing metal and welding.

The problem is I may not have fully achieved my goal.....I don't know when it happened but the drivers side tub mounting point is 2mm lower than passenger side making the ends of the boot supports different by 3mm. ( in the same direction )

Very difficult to work out where the problem lies as it may be an error caused by slight errors in my supporting technique. Which also means there may not be too much of a problem at all?

I tried to support the weld areas as much as possible to avoid movement, maybe the chassis had already moved slightly due to weakness caused by the corrosion, I did remove some grim repairs!

Also the factory manual gives you chassis dimensions and checking points etc. but no tolerance ie plus/minus.

So do I release my welds, I think I can see where the error may have been made ( a weld just behind the front diff mounting, I had to take quite a bit of metal from there and it may have sagged slightly ) and then reset the the the the level of of the rear tub mounts which would also bring in the boot outriggers up too as they appear to be the originals so should be a good reference.

Bu**er!!

[Pete Lewis]

liitle point in getting too accurate  you have a 50 yr old wonky  body to sit on it 

we did the same with levels and jigs to control the chassis and needed 20 mm of packers in places on the body mounts  

3mm  =  utopia   

( some of the wsm dimensions have a double entry if there is any tolerance control  other wise is open tolerance and thats not specified

on a chassis could be as wide and 0.125"  or 1/8 "+ _ 

 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

I'm currently fitting a body to a chassis and am trying to find any hints, tips or tricks to make sure it's all fitted properly. This is an abandoned restoration where the bulkhead was fitted to the chassis, the bodytub to the bulkhead, and then the roof wouldn't fit... so something is very wrong. It's not the first one I've ever done but the others were all convertibles so less faffing with tolerances. I've got the Service Training Manual which just says that the bulkhead should simply be screwed to the chassis and all other references taken from that, but I've also read other articles where the bulkhead needs to be fitted exactly level to the chassis, so am looking for the definitive 'how-to'. Since the original canvas mounting pads are no longer available the problem is the compression of the current replacements. I'm just interested in hearing anyone else's ideas or tricks before starting this one.

[Tom]

Blimey Pete, maybe I'm getting a little excited!

Anyhow it gets better, I was taking one of my levels from an inaccurate source. My chassis has had a replacement rear outrigger, the other is original. One of the levels I took was from the outer body mount ( rear out rigger ) to the other outer body mount, I had 2 parallels on the mount point and a long accurate aluminium extrusion resting on it with a spirit level on it. Unbeknownst to me the replaced outrigger was fitted low causing my levels at the rear to be incorrect. When I level the rear of the chassis using the factory fitted outrigger ( parallel on outer point, and both main chassis beams ) everything levels up beautifully including the outer ends of the boot outriggers.

Jeeze, I might sleep tonight!!!

[Pete Lewis]

if i remember right some rear mounts had 20mm of solid spacers and one rubber ( disck cut from a HD truck mudflap  rubber and canvass)

to get door fits and all the tub gaps to......look right 

once we had the door gaps   I  drilled a sized hole and bolt  in the floor joint  to stop any chance the two tubs might want to close up , 

the training booklet is pretty useless on all the old and wonky we now have ,  but wooden wedges to attempt tubs to shift is as exciting as mickey mouse 

pete

 

[Tom]

Yes Pete, once things get this old and wonky if it looks right it is right!

Colin, I have all that to look forward to!! Got plenty of welding left until then however! Then many hours cleaning as much of the rancid underseal and then more hours with a wire wheel on the drill. The plan is then to paint all the underside of the rear tub and the chassis from the front body split onwards with zinc rich primer overtopped with some Frosts satin black chassis paint. I also plan to inject plenty of waxoyl or similiar...any suggestions? ( I remember my grandad pumping the old engine oil into the chassis of our old 1200 saloon when I was a nipper!! )

It will look hilarious from the underside, the rear half of the car will look restored and front not!! I just know if I took the rest of the car to bits it would never get finished!!!!

 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I also plan to inject plenty of waxoyl or similiar...any suggestions?

It will look hilarious from the underside, the rear half of the car will look restored and front not!!

Gallons of the stuff!! I used to stand the chassis on end and fill the boot outriggers with liquid Waxoyl (I have old threads on here about heating it over a gas burner until it ran like tea), then I'd turn the chassis upside down and fill very hole along the main rails, then upright again and do the same. For weeks afterwards the stuff ran out onto the floor but I know it was covered.

Your Herald may well end up like mine - everything has been restored bar the rear tub, which has so much underseal on it I got bored scraping it off. I may end up painting the bulkhead floor red and just putting more underseal over the rear tub floors, in which case the front will be body colour and the rear, black. Only the MOT man will ever see...

 

[Tom]

Judging on what Pete said earlier would I be a bit silly cutting the welds on the previously fitted rear outrigger to raise the end ( Body mount hole end ) by approx 5mm? It is not welded at the top( bodged ) , which I will do, so I can assume the outrigger was fitted with the body on so maybe the body slumped slightly when the old one was rotten/removed and the chimps that fitted it didn't take this into account when fitting the new one?....who knows?

[Pete Lewis]

agree just add some packers to level the boot 

Pete

[ahebron]

When setting up my Vitesse body I used air wedges like the ones for breaking in to cars. A lot nicer than using a wooden wedge and hammer and very easy to get exact spacing. But I have also solid mounted the body to the chassis using 6mm stainless spacers and stainless penny washers for level trimming.

[Tom]

Ok ahebron, how you find the solid mounting?

Well I have finally finish all the chassis welding, scraped off all the underseal and then attacked it with a wire wheel for 4hrs!!! I have undercoated it in Dacrylate zinc rich primer and will treat it to a couple of coats of Frost satin chassis black tomorrow........................only took me 8yrs!!!!

Driveshafts, trunnions and diff back together too!!!

[Bordfunker]

Lovely job on the chassis and rear drive line, but I’m not sure that Honda engine will be up to the job!

Karl

[Colin Lindsay]

Must give him a heads-up on how to fit brake drums, too...

[PeteH]

Hi.

Only recently put the tub(s) back on mine (13/60). Spent a few hours (days) variously jacking and fitting Washers Etc; until I got a rough equal looking door hang, along the swage lines. That will have to do until I finish the bonnet, and I can revisit the whole thing.

I also Made and fitted an additional Chassis bracket directly under where the tubs Join. I too, have doubts about the Honda Engine?.😀

[Tom]

Thanks Fellas, don't worry she'll fly with that Honda engine in!! For those interested it's from a 1976 CB200, I bought it in 1986 when I was 16!! Tough little thing, I did 47K on it before the timing chain started eating it's way through he casing, found lumps of alloy in the oil. I rebuilt the top end a few years ago and restored the the rest, just needs the motor dropping back in.

My Herald will be no show car, I'm aiming for tidy, solid and usable....all my old vehicles fit into this category!

Pete, my front tub is still on but I'll definitely need some advice on fitting the rear ( once I've done all the repairs!! )

[Tom]

My door bottoms look ok but I know they have filler in them because I put it there! I also have repair panals for the area just forward of the rear wheels at the bottom where they all rot, I'm wondering if it would be best to repair them with the tub off or wait until the tub is back in so I can get better door gaps at the bottom?

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Six of one and half a dozen of the other, as the saying goes. With the tub off you can get it upside down and work on areas that you can't reach as easily when it's fitted, but then you may have to adjust the gaps. If you weld the panels on with the tub fitted, you can gap it as required but may not have the same easy access. Those lower wing panels should be easy enough to get at with the tub fitted.

[PeteH]

Hi

The amount of steel that was needed for my Rear tub would have been impossible to replace "in Situ":-

Just 2 samples. 😥

[Tom]

Blimey Pete that is a big ol chunk!!!!

..............reminds me of the 1st Spit I had in 1995, a MK3. I decided the 50p sized hole in the drivers side sill needed attention, I put a Saturday morning aside for it, as you probably know spit sills are in 3 pieces and structural and closer inspection revealed the center piece rotted pretty much it's entire length along the bottom edge. After removing the sill it was evident the edge of the floorpan was waffffer thin and 'unweldontable' I ended up cutting about 2 inches off the entire edge of the floorpan and folding my own section up and replacing the entire sill!!!! I lived near Radlett at the time and their was a Triumph specialist fairly near just off Watling St ( can't remember their name?) who fortunately had the panals in stock, I finished the welding as it got dark on the drive on Sunday evening!!!

Being my only car at the time and work on Monday I'd wish I'd left it alone!!!