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Herald front hub felt grease seal


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Taking an hour or 4 off tub fitting to clean the manky grease from my front hubs, check the wheel bearings and re pack. 

I've just noticed my felt seals are different, one is quite thin and the felt faces towards the bearing? the other faces the other way towards the vertical link and is much thicker, obviously only one is correct!

My car has disc brakes.

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The felt seal faces inwards ie towards the vertical link. Original ones ie Unipart are quite heavy dark felt; later ones are thinner and white felt, rarely fit too easily, and come off the metal backplate very easily. Payen NA988 or Unipart GHS110. They will press in with light finger pressure whereas the other ones need tapped in and frequently distort to destruction.

s-l500-2.jpg.7ae71a5b19236258c104d6c45c42bec8.jpg

 

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Interesting Pete, pretty much every hub I've ever taken apart is full of grease, I often wondered about that myself, all this unused grease in the middle of the hub. I wondered if the sloped surfaces inside the hub would slowly feed the grease around the bearing from centrifugal force*, constantly rotating the grease around.

*I remember having an argument with my Mechanical engineering lecturer (when I did my HNC) about rotating forces. He was adamant Centrifugal force did not exist and the only force involved is Centripetal acceleration, the force preventing the rotating body flying off at a tangent................I never did get my head around that?????

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I recently tried to change these felt washers on my MKIV Spitfire, the new ones were significantly thicker, i.e. about 3 times, than the existing such that it was impossible to get the hub back on with the correct end float, reverted to replacing the original felt washers. Once discussed on other forums this seems to be a common problem and most owners seemed tp get over the problem by carefully cutting down the thickness of the new washer

 

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

*I remember having an argument with my Mechanical engineering lecturer (when I did my HNC) about rotating forces. He was adamant Centrifugal force did not exist and the only force involved is Centripetal acceleration,

A common claim among those of a highly pedantic persuasion who haven't understood Newton's laws. They argue that it's all because you need centripetal acceleration to travel in a circle. They forget that any acceleration requires a force to create it - in this case a centripetal force provided by the structure of the hub. They also forget that every action has an equal and opposite reaction - in other words the presence of a centripetal force, which is required by the centripetal acceleration, implies a centrifugal force on the source of that centripetal force, namely the hub. And that's without invoking the first principle of physics - often quoted in the context of relativity but known to Newton too - which is that the laws of physics remain the same regardless of the frame of reference. And any sufficiently good mathematician would be able to provide the reference frame transformation to prove that centrifugal force and centripetal force are the same thing.

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Well Dan, that's exactly what I was thinking😁

He wouldn't have it though, my argument was which direction is the force created by the rotation moving the object?   it's AWAY from the center of rotation not towards it otherwise a centrifuge would chuck all the stuff at the center and all your clothes woulds float around in the center of the drum when spinning around!!!

Anyway I've moved on from hubs they're done, thankfully the bearings are all good..........I've found a piece that isn't worn out!!

Now trying to rebuild my calipers and it's killing me how to get the dust seal to locate in both the caliper and the slot in the piston seems an impossible task, I'v got all four pistons to do aswell!!!!😣

 

might have to call it day!

 

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7 minutes ago, Tom said:

Now trying to rebuild my calipers and it's killing me how to get the dust seal to locate in both the caliper and the slot in the piston seems an impossible task, I'v got all four pistons to do aswell!!!!😣

might have to call it day!

 

Type 14? You just need four hands.

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14s are simple; I found them much easier than late 16s that I had on the GT6, and I think they're also a lot easier than 12s. I'm using 14s on both Heralds so have not yet got round to trying any work on the type 12s - I split one once both to get a seriously rusted piston out and to see what they looked like inside, so must go back and complete the job if I ever get enough free time. They're easier to work on in two halves! The little rubber seal between the halves is available from suppliers, part CS1 (caliper seal 1)

DSCF5507.jpg.e8b71d81379ad370e0dad51ed4ab2803.jpg

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I almost got to the point of splitting the calipers but after a good nights sleep and a fresh head I managed it. 

Tips I can offer are for the 12's are.....

1. Spend as much time as need cleaning the groove out for the dust seals on the caliper, it makes a big difference to the how easy and well the the seal goes in.

2. Fit the piston seal and then the piston but don't push it all the way in make sure the bottom of the groove in the piston is about 2mm proud of the top edge of the caliper.

3. Fit the dust seal over the top of the piston and carefully get the top lip in the piston.

4. Push the piston the last 2mm down ( fully in ) and then hook one edge of the dust seal into it's caliper groove and hold.

5. This is the tricky bit.......whilst holding the edge that is already in use a pair of long pointy nosed pliers to gently pull the inaccessible edges of the seal in and using your fingers in a V formation hold each side.

6. Now all you have to do is hook the front edge in whilst holding the bits you already have in, if you have a Hamster or Gerbil trained in caliper rebuilding this is the moment you need their little hands!!!!!!!

7. Gently with the tip of a small screwdriver press around the top over the seal through to the bottom of the seal in the caliper, I found this squared it up a little.

8. Have a cup of tea and possibly a biscuit depending how it went.

9. Repeat 3 more times

10. seek anger management therapy!

Wish I'd taken some pics but I hope this helps anybody contemplating this.

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I would disagree with you on one small point.... have more than one biscuit!

Wait until you have two fingers of each hand holding the seal in place while you hold a small screwdriver in your mouth and hook it around with that. But, well done; it's always great to know that something didn't defeat you.

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I know I've drifted off my original topic but I'm into the brakes now!

Well all the braking system is complete once again.

I rebuilt the master cylinder, new seals and pistons in the front calipers, new rear cylinders, new pads, new shoes, checked system for leaks, rear brakes adjusted up.

I have bled the system with help from my daughter on the pedal and me with a piece of pipe, jam jar and spanner but I'm struggling to get a firm pedal. The pedal does not go to the floor but it's still too squishy. I must still have air in the system.

Are there any pearls of wisdom out there? Technique/wheel order etc?

Tom.

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It may not be air in the system. Any mechanical play will cause a squishy pedal. In particular, the rear brakes need to be adjusted spot on to get a firm pedal, and the front calipers need to have pistons that slide through the rubber seals without bending them, because if the seal distorts then the piston springs back further than it should.

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Yes see what you mean Dan, all I can say is pistons and seal are new and moved freely and I've adjusted the shoes up as per manual.

Do you have any bleeding tips, I've read in a few places Heralds  can be tricky to bleed sometimes?

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any car can be a faf bleeding its not just triumphs

having got all sorts of bleed help including a electric pressure bleeder i always revert to the simple 

have enough tube on the nipple  to hold the catch jar up high well above the brake , then open nipple press down quickly,    ,   nip up      return slowly

repeat till tube is free of air  bubbles rising .

pete

   

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Note what Pete said keep bottle high difficult if using a jam jar, I brought a bleed kit which has a small plastic bottle with magnet attached so it just clips onto the wheel arch in height above the bleed nipple.

Attached is a photo of a semi soft plastic bleed nipple attachment that really grips on the bleed nipple, that I recently brought on ebay ex China 4 for GBP5 with free postage unfortunately they took 4 months to arrive but all Covid bugs dead by then, and I sprayed with Glen 20 disinfectant & left them outside for 3 days!

Why did I buy 4 cheap and gave 2 to friends!

Re Chinese made goods retailers here indicate they are getting questioned where is it made and if China there is some indicated reticence to buy! Must admit this was the last product I purchased from there in Feb, and will preferably buy Aussie, Taiwan, Japan, or UK/Europe! Why Taiwan definitely not Chinese and I have a Taiwanese DILaw.

Chinese plastic bleed nipple bleeders.JPG

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10 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Re Chinese made goods retailers here indicate they are getting questioned where is it made and if China there is some indicated reticence to buy! 

Buying from China doesn't worry me,  I'm more likely to catch something nasty from my local supermarket which is full of goods that have travelled halfway round the world. I think we've more chance of catching something from the bubble wrap - which is full of air from places unknown - than the items themselves... :) 

What I do dislike it buying online from UK sellers, only to find that the items are despatched from China and take weeks to arrive.

I'll agree with Pete, I've thrown out more brake bleeding devices than I can remember, and always reverted to feet, the pedal, and a short plastic tube.

 

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They only gizmo I've had for bleeding brakes was a device that used tyre pressure to force the fluid through the system in a continuous stream, I remember that being handy a few times to get the air out of my Renault 11 I had at the time, it also made it a one man job. I made the fatal mistake of lending it someone, he left it in his leaky shed and the whole thing had corroded, in was useless, he gave me some money for it but I never got round to buying another as I wrote the 11 off and have never needed one since, it was good though.

One last thing, the fluid I'm now removing is clear new fluid. is it ok to put it back in the system as I'm getting a bit low on it now?

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I loved my 11, simple, super comfy relaxing car. Mine was only a 1.4 first gen 1985, twin headlamps. In the winter of 1996 I browed a hill heading out of Barnet, a Range Rover had left the road on black ice, ricocheted of a tree and ended up back on the road, I braked ( on the aforementioned black ice ), ended up sliding sideways on the opposite side of the the road only to be T boned by a TWO day old BMW 5 series! The BM hit the passenger wheel sideways really hard, the 11 spun that quickly the rear quarter smacked the back of the Beemer as it went past!!!

Wrote both cars off! I distinctly remember seeing the glovebox coming towards me in slow motion and the seatbelt locking up and stopping me faceplanting it!!!

Anyway, spent a bit more time bleeding, more air came out and now I have a lovely hard pedal! and a jam jar full of what looks like new fluid, should this be binned now or is it perfectly fine and reusable, It has only passed through the Heralds system and not mixed with old fluid as everything is new, I have a couple of motorbikes that need a fluid change, this would be ideal.

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21 minutes ago, Tom said:

Anyway, spent a bit more time bleeding, more air came out and now I have a lovely hard pedal! and a jam jar full of what looks like new fluid, should this be binned now or is it perfectly fine and reusable, It has only passed through the Heralds system and not mixed with old fluid as everything is new, I have a couple of motorbikes that need a fluid change, this would be ideal.

I'd bin it. For all it costs, it's the peace of mind of knowing you're running on good clean fluid and whilst your jar may look full of clean fluid, your brakes will soon let you know if it isn't.

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