Pete Lewis Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 Yes Doug that illustration is very wrong with the square hole at the top of the rear shoe the lining position on the shoe looses its" leading" profile and a leading shoe ha a s self servo effect to help braking by adding contact force to the drum a trailing shoe wants to lift away from the drum fit the shoe upside down and you will fail the MOT efficiency % Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: if you have to use a bolt it needs a shank to contact the wear points and always fit a bolt so if the nyloc/nut lets go the bolt wont drop out but agree clevis and R clip or split pin is the std fit having said that it a lot easier to remove a nut than a rusty siezed spit pin Pete Rust!!! This car wont see any rust ever again🤣 As for skimming drums I think thats a lost art because I struggled to find anyone prepared to take it on. Needs a suitable mandrel and not available nowadays. Pity as I think an old skimmed drum has much more chance of staying round than a new pattern part.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 Yes Pete you are correct, but my brake shoes always look like this. And not this Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettifordo Posted October 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said: And not this Do you think I have the wrong type of brake shoe ? I still a bit confused about the leading / following part as my brake shoes seem to be identical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 It looks like the issue of pattern parts quality has raised its ugly head again! What effect the difference will have is unknown but the leading edge of the front shoe worries me as it looks more vulnerable to catching on the drum with the risk of being pulled away. Chamfering it certainly appears to be a good idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 the lining should /must be fitted to align with the end of the shoes leading edge so the expanding effort makes the lining grab the drum , if its late it just rubs it and does not gain any rotation load to aid the contact its called self servoing those bonded look awfull there is no leading trailing action Dougs top picture is spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Pettifordo said: Do you think I have the wrong type of brake shoe ? I do, but I'm not sure it causes binding? Certainty what Pete said, but what do the gurus think? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettifordo Posted October 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said: I do I purchased the shoes from Rimmer Bros about 6 months ago……so I can rule it out I will buy new ones and also replace the springs and then I can check the movement of the slave cylinders - I will update you on progress next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanT Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 Had same issue on my rebuild @Pettifordo File down the end edges of the friction material. It solve the issue. Handbrake may need to be a bit less tight than you’d eventually like until worn in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanT Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 By the way @Pettifordoit’s well worth getting Mintex front pads whilst sorting your brakes. A recent discovery for me (courtesy of our experts) and transformational vs standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishawley Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 This could be rather repeating what has been said above....but here goes... The orientation of the shoes is an interesting matter. Reffering to the WSM and Haynes they in accordance as to which way up the shoes should go. But it's sort of impossible to fit the front shoe incorrectly because the cut out from the lever for the handbrake has to be at the top. Note that the drawing in the WSM, although unlabelled, refers to the left hand unit. Then there's the matter of 'unisex' shoes - those where the friction lining is cut away equally at both ends. Had some from Fitchetts and questioned them about it. They said 'it's fine'. So I fitted them and they were indeed fine. If the brakes are rubbing periodically on each rotation and always in the same position(s) that does rather point to the drum being slighty out of round. But if only one side is problematic then a diagnostic test might be to swap the drums over: If the rub transfers with the drum (once adjusted up) then that would be even more suggestive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettifordo Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 So I think I have the rear brakes working now - set them as 1 full turn back from where they stop the brakes and making sure the leading edge was shaved……. so that’s great but now the front Nearside brake is really tight 😩😩😩😩 I can turn it with the wheel on but it is stiff and with the wheel off I can’t turn the hub - it’s like the breaks aren’t letting off…..the calliper is a new one from RimmerBros 😤😤😤 new disks as well and new wheel bearing - soooo frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettifordo Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Brakes working now - think it might have been the slave cylinder not moving freely…… But then the front ones were sticking and this was caused my my “fix” to get the brake lights to go off meaning the brake pedal didn’t travel back fair enough to let brake fluid back into the master cylinder. Car was rolling and stopping nicely !! Phew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettifordo Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 But I have ordered new shoes and new springs anyway as I don’t want problems later on 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 28/10/2022 at 12:03, johny said: Rust!!! This car wont see any rust ever again🤣 As for skimming drums I think thats a lost art because I struggled to find anyone prepared to take it on. Needs a suitable mandrel and not available nowadays. Pity as I think an old skimmed drum has much more chance of staying round than a new pattern part.... That IMHO, is largely because your average workshop no longer has tradesman Turners. A company I am familiar with, the owner served his apprenticeship with me, has had a request out for over 6 months for a Turner, No takers, the guy who retired creating the vacancy, still goes back to do the odd job that no one else can cope with, he`s now into his 70`s. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Yes then that in turn pushes up the cost so it cant compete with new drums from a low cost labour country... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Not very green either is it☹️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 i got some replacement drums for the 2000 machined like an old thrupenny bit obviously held in a lathe chuck with created some serious lobe effect complete rubish and they were from a place that normally knows better had them in stock too long to return them so they went up the tip i would just burnish the braking surface and realy clean both mating faces and the hub may be the cause of any runout they do get bent with age and years of furious removal methods , si i would check the hub face runout Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 I believe cast iron also has a habit of distorting after casting so should be left a while before machining (please note this aftermarket manufacturers!). The problem for refacing the braking surface is how to hold the drum to ensure its centred on the axle axis rather than the outside and I would have thought an old modified half shaft could be used. With a short section of half shaft held in the chuck the drum could then be reverse bolted to the hub and machined.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 yes in manufacturing we stored cast drums outside for months to age them and these were 20" dia and brake surface 8" wide used to be made by Qualcast back in the days when we had an industry . not long back we were given synchro baulk rings machined in a chuck to make three lobed useless parts supply its the loss of skills and basic understanding that we suffer at the wallet these days Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 01/11/2022 at 09:57, Pete Lewis said: we stored cast drums outside for months to age them In steam locomotive preservation, the cast iron brake blocks are similarly left outside to weather for several months before use. I recently delivered a new set to the GWS at Didcot and added them to their "weathering pile". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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