spitfire Mk3 won’t start

[johny]

No, no, just make sure its the right way by looking at the offset of the lugs👍

[Jonah]

Ok thanks Johny, there  must be something wrong as my understanding is that if the static timing and the points are set correctly it should start

 

[johny]

Well certainly if the dizzy is inserted 180* out the spark will come at exactly the right moment as the pistons rise to their top position but on their exhaust stroke instead of compression. Definitely worth checking but theres still some other possibilities like stuck advance weights in the dizzy etc...

Edited June 3, 2023 by johny

[Jonah]

I can get the car started but cannot maintain an idea, it just coughs and splutters whatever I do

with the  rotor arm pointing to No1 cylinder and the pulley mark set at TDC this is the orientation of the drive lug, is this correct?

[Steve P]

I wouldn`t rely on the timing marks, take the plugs out, rotate the engine until NO 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, put your thumb over the plug hole as it rises and you should feel compression.Then get the rotor arm in the right position, pointing just before no. 1 lead ,then make sure the leads are in the right order on the dissy cap looking anti clockwise.

1-3-4-2.

It should run if you have spark and fuel.

Steve

Edited June 5, 2023 by Steve P

[Jonah]

Thanks Steve I will try again

julian 

[DanMi]

The way to set the MK3 timing is to fully retard the vernier on the vacuum unit, then set the timing at TDC then advance the vernier the require number of degrees 1 click = 1 degree. 

[Gary Flinn]

1 hour ago, DanMi said:

The way to set the MK3 timing is to fully retard the vernier on the vacuum unit, then set the timing at TDC then advance the vernier the require number of degrees 1 click = 1 degree. 

I always thought the vernier adjuster was for small adjustments only and should be adjusted to the middle setting?

I'm not sure what Distributor the Mk3 Spit is fitted with, but here's a link regarding the Vernier adjustment on a 25D Lucas type fitted to a Morris Minor, 18 click is equivalent to 1 degree, with a maximum of 13 degree's adjustment in total using the vernier  

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiA5M3Coa7_AhUbEcAKHbGlB2wQFnoECCQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fboard.mmoc.org.uk%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D59263&usg=AOvVaw2kzQVgFxxorwtHUVWQFqe9

Regards

Gary

Edited June 6, 2023 by Gary Flinn

[Jonah]

I’ve tried Steve P’s approach and ignored the timing marks, it starts but is difficult to maintain a steady idle, it coughs, ticks and eventually dies, small movements of the dizzy don't seem to make much difference

The dizzy is a Delco, is it possible that there is a problem with it?

julian

[DanMi]

2 hours ago, Gary Flinn said:

I always thought the vernier adjuster was for small adjustments only and should be adjusted to the middle setting?

The MK1-3 use a Delco Remy distributer. Attached is a photo of the page from the MK2 owners handbook MK3 is the same

[Jonah]

Thanks Dan, I’ve tried but still no cigar, it starts but runs roughly, pinks and is difficult to maintain an idle

When clamped up the dizzy has movement and wobbles in the housing 

I think I’ve reached a point when I need to get a new distributor to try, can anyone recommend one, prices seem to vary from £30 to £300?

julian

[DanMi]

 The club shop can get the original reconditioned by H&H ignition but cheaper than direct (or it was a few years back) either with points or electronic

[Jonah]

Do you know why there’s such a huge range of prices? Are the cheaper ones poor quality?

[DanMi]

the cheap ones are mainly Lucas 1500 distributers without the tachometer drive. I have no experience of new ones, I had mine rebuilt by the club shop. SimonBBC seems to have a good reputation. But most of the new ones don't have the vernier on the vacuum unit if that worries you

[Jonah]

Do you know if a rebuild kit is available?

[DanMi]

4 minutes ago, Jonah said:

Do you know if a rebuild kit is available?

I have never seen one.

[Pete Lewis]

we fitted a  4 ccyl  accuspark unit with tacho drive  around £70 with points    it seemed a reasonable unit  

no idea how its lasted 

pete

[Paul H]

2 hours ago, DanMi said:

the cheap ones are mainly Lucas 1500 distributers without the tachometer drive. I have no experience of new ones, I had mine rebuilt by the club shop. SimonBBC seems to have a good reputation. But most of the new ones don't have the vernier on the vacuum unit if that worries you

I bought a new Delco copy with electronic ignition from SimonBBC for my Vitesse cost about £90 . It does have a tachometer drive . Having a vernier would have been preferable and the moulding looks a tad crude though 4 years on its working fine for me . I do carry a spare electronic ignition just in case cost about £30

At the time I compared this price against a Lucas recon from Dist Doctor cost about £250 and this was for points 

Paul 

 

[Jonah]

Thank you everyone

accuspark sell an electronic conversion kit that fits into the existing Delco dizzy for about £60

do you know if the existing dizzy needs to be in good working order to fit this? 

[johny]

An electronic unit will allow more play in the dizzy rotor than points without affecting its performance. However its centrifugal advance  weights and springs inside must be in good condition or the timing will stay correct as you rev the engine...

[Pete Lewis]

11 hours ago, Jonah said:

existing dizzy needs to be in good working order to fit this? 

yes obviously or you waste your £££

as i said accuspark with rev counter and points is as a new unit around £75

points last for around 5000 miles 

Pete

[Jonah]

Unfortunately Accuspark don’t have an electronic D200 replacement and won’t have any for 6 months, all they can offer now is the kit to install in the existing body 

[Pete Lewis]

electronic is only a electronic points its not rocket science 

it just saves you checking the points once a year   dont get fooled into thinking it is a some magic 

it just makes you lazy   many of us  use a variety of makes all can do a good job at  varying prices .

but points have worked well for 50 years 

pete

[Jonah]

Thanks Pete, I’ll go for a points replacement, finding one with a vernier adjustment seems tricky though

[Pete Lewis]

who many times do you have to twiddle a vernier ,   its really not important 

Pete