GT6 Reverse Stop Plate

[Martin V]

Whilst solving my O/D issue (now found what seems to be Gearbox switch has permanent earth) I found another potential issue/topic.

I know I needed to service my selector springs and washers (kit ordered) and once remote was lifted off the gearbox (finding complete lack of any gasket and the most likely cause of my gear oil losses) I found what seems to me to be a lack of reverse stop plate. 
 

I’d asked PO and he’d said yes push down but I’d thought it didn’t seem to need to push down. General gear shifting, especially out of 2nd and 4th can be super sticky also which I’d assumed was down to the need of the service kit. 
 

Now I’m wondering if the gear change was sticky because the lever is too low and hence no need to push down for reverse or is it both that my springs are shot AND I have no reverse stop plate?

pic attached from manual and my remote. I can’t see what it should look like in vertical plane from side.

[rlubikey]

It does look too low to me. There's your reverse stop plate. Can you lift the gear stick up? And if you can, does the reverse stop pin meet the plate? I would say you're missing a spring or circlip or things are in the wrong order inside the stick bush assembly.

Cheers, Richard

[johny]

Yes the reverse stop plate is present but as an aside looks the wrong way round as I think its vertical groove should be facing inwards for the stop bolt to slide down. However theres definitely a problem with the lever return spring/circlip as it should always force the lever fully upwards and until this is resolved gear changes will be never be correct. You need to rotate and unlatch the lever dome cover and compare the internals with the picture in the manual...

Edited July 31, 2023 by johny

[Pete Lewis]

it is very common the springs circlip jumps out of the groove in the stick  makes the reverse stop now too low and 

little push down movement as its already part way down   the parts in the remote kit will have a new clip

do take care with the spherical washer depends where you get it from but many are cropped and have a razor sharp edge 

which will mince the plastic cup quickly

in the kit are 0 rings these are generally not needed  they need the selector  rod removing and they fit in the alloy top cover

then when refitting you chop them to bits so leave them alone 

to add the bottom pivot bolt should only be fited one way as get it wrong and the bolt will foul the casting and give you a bent H  more I-)

Pete

[Martin V]

Thanks for the super quick support.

Yes the lever moves up and there isn’t much movement downwards. I just stripped it down and the circlip was just floating on the shaft. 

looks like some of the parts are well mashed but springs look good so I guess I’ll just replace those and build correctly as per the manual picture.

Great that you confirm my thinking that all should be OK when I fit the new service kit (springs etc).

[Martin V]

Also found this pic on line which showed me a better view of the plate.

[rlubikey]

18 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

do take care with the spherical washer depends where you get it from but many are cropped and have a razor sharp edge which will mince the plastic cup quickly

Yes. Also take care the top-most parts don't have upward facing sharp edges. Mine did and now my pristine "Womble's Nose" gear stick boot is cut 

Basically, re-use all the original parts you can - only use the things from the service kit you absolutely have to.

Good luck, Richard

[Martin V]

I'm not sure what the big washer with the split in is actually doing in there after looking in the WS manual, Haynes and parts catalogue?

Looks like PO or others just picked this up and added it for some random reason 🙂

[johny]

Have a close look at the groove in the gear lever where the circlip sits as if this is worn theres a good chance it'll slip out again. That split washer which most have is just a dust cover to stop debris contaminating the sliding surfaces....

[Martin V]

Thanks Johny. I think the groove where it should be is still good with clean square edged=s. The clip may also be good enough to go back into the groove as i wonder if it has been out like this for a long time given the marks on the shaft further up where it has been sat.

I'll also see if the plate unscrews to flip it to the correct orientation- I can also see the groove where the reverse inhibitor bolt should move up and down.

[johny]

Good. Perhaps someone else can confirm about that groove as the manual doesnt show it and your plate looks to be in its original position so maybe Im wrong - Im going by logic but sometimes that doesnt apply😁

[ed.h]

There are some pics here of all the parts and how they go together:

http://bullfire.net/GT6/GT6-15/GT6-15.html

Ed

 

 

[johny]

Thanks yes the stop plate does indeed look like it goes with the bulge sticking towards the reverse pin contrary to my logic. However it appears its not a channel as I seemed to remember but just a small indent so maybe it helps prevent accidental selection of reverse...

[Martin V]

On 31/07/2023 at 15:08, johny said:

Have a close look at the groove in the gear lever where the circlip sits as if this is worn theres a good chance it'll slip out again. That split washer which most have is just a dust cover to stop debris contaminating the sliding surfaces....

Johny, where in the sequence of parts does the split washer sit?

Also I was assuming it should be flat washer not the random buckled shape of min currently?

I have the new kit arrived today and I'm just planning to use the new clip (as it looks to be tighter fit) the bushes/hats for the two linkages (as they all look worn) and the plastic washer which sits 2nd from top under my original metal cap (beneath the external cover).

My springs look in good condition and although they sit slightly shorter than the kit ones I think they are good to retain like the nylon spherical ball joint.

[Colin Lindsay]

The small spring washer / split washer needs to be a square profile; if it's a round profile it will spring out again very easily. This exploded diagram (looks like Rimmers' site?) shows the order of things.

[johny]

Thats it, split washer, which does very little, goes on last before the gaiter👍

[Martin V]

17 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

The small spring washer / split washer needs to be a square profile; if it's a round profile it will spring out again very easily. This exploded diagram (looks like Rimmers' site?) shows the order of things.

Thanks Colin, yes both old and new profiles of the locking spring clip are square, I'll examine how both fit when I go to put it together. Clearly the old one came out or wasn't fitted properly in the first place so I'm tending towards using the new one if it fits squarely.

The Split washer I was referring to specifically is the third from left on my table top photo above, which I think sat on the gear stick between the large spring 119251 and the 128373 (spring retaining washer).

 

[Martin V]

10 minutes ago, johny said:

Thats it, split washer, which does very little, goes on last before the gaiter👍

sorry I'm being thick here - it was originally above the larger spring beneath the plastic spring retaining washer based on my table top layout of the items as I took them off. It looks weird sitting there and that seems different to what you describe Johny?  Are you saying some people fit in place of the rubber washer 611177.

 

[johny]

I think the rubber washer is what you get now for 611177 but I have seen old floppy type split discs fitted as dust shield before the gaiter. What comes in the kit to replace your split disc if not the rubber washer?

Check all youre new metal components are free of sharp edges and file them off if not....

[Martin V]

I'm not sure there is any replacement in the kit for the 611177 as the kit seems to be all the parts below the surface "cap gear stick". Ill see if I have something in my misc tool box that might help seal the rubber grommet/gater.

I'm concluding that some PO added the metal washer to help the quite worn plastic spring retaining washer 128373. Or they were idiots and just didn't check the manual (also possible).

Luckily my two top metal caps are great condition and now everything has been de-greased they look great. The new ones from Rimmer do not feel bad anyway but they can stay as spares.

 

[johny]

18 minutes ago, Martin V said:

I'm concluding that some PO added the metal washer to help the quite worn plastic spring retaining washer 128373. Or they were idiots and just didn't check the manual (also possible).

Right yes I agree. Looking at your photo the old plastic inner cup is very worn and wouldnt have held the spring in place with out the addition of that split washer. It must be home made and was split to allow it to be dished...

The gear lever components are quite fragile so dont last long and if you want to keep gear changes at their best expect to be doing this job again in a few years (depending on mileage of course)😊 

Edited August 3, 2023 by johny

[Martin V]

All back together. Looking better as far as the correct positioning for the stop plate goes. I’ve just got the extension fitted and the gear changes feel like I’d imagined they should with positive changes and all of the slack also gone. Third and forth are no longer a battle and Reverse needs the push down it was design to have.

Staggered about how bad it all was and that this is how it was sold.

btw I found a grommet that looks like it will do a nice job of helping stop anything dropping down the small gap around gear stick but will see if I can find a wider one.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Martin V

[johny]

Good news Martin. That grommet should help but the idea of having some sort of large flexible disc to cover the whole of the top of the bayonet cap is to stop possible road grit flying up and into those sliding surfaces especially the plastic one where, with the grease slapped in there, it could act as grinding paste....