Driver's door needs to be SLAMMED hard to close

[Iain T]

26 minutes ago, micmak said:

On a totally unrelated subject:  a good thing that I discovered this morning;  the car started first time with a full choke!!!!! 😆

As it should be. Full out choke, don't press the clutch and churn it over. If adjusted correctly full choke should be around 1200rpm. With a mechanical pump it may take a couple of churns to prime the carb(s). 

Iain 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

15 hours ago, Wagger said:

Your shut lines are too close between bonnet and door AND door and rear tub.It may be simpler to move the bonnet , then move the door forward. Moving the tub may be difficult.

Bonnet and door but NOT bonnet and bulkhead. There's quite a gap along the top edge of the bonnet. I'd look at shimming the bulkhead to tilt forward, which will close this top gap but widen the distance between the screen pillars and the quarterlights. The bonnet will require repositioning slightly, but the doors can then be moved forward and cure the b-post problem.

[micmak]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Bonnet and door but NOT bonnet and bulkhead. There's quite a gap along the top edge of the bonnet. I'd look at shimming the bulkhead to tilt forward, which will close this top gap but widen the distance between the screen pillars and the quarterlights. The bonnet will require repositioning slightly, but the doors can then be moved forward and cure the b-post problem.

All of which is just beyond my abilities at the moment, Colin.  I think the smartest thing I can do is find someone who can do this sort of work for me.  If I try to do this on my own now, I fear I might do more harm than good.

[Pete Lewis]

a couple of spanners is all you need you cant wreck anything

the body mounts should sit on a rubber pad this can stick and make simple shifts a bit sticky 

to maintain the positions we made a simple bit of timber with a slot each end to jam in the door seal flange 

so when tightening down it doesnt shift 

the front bulkhead forward mount to the outrigger is supposed to be sized hole and wont move much 

so its tiltable with packers but no fwd rearward adjustment   the rear tub will move all over the place there is a good 

deal of big hole small bolt adjustment 

its quite DIY no special tools at all

Pete

[micmak]

48 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

a couple of spanners is all you need you cant wreck anything

the body mounts should sit on a rubber pad this can stick and make simple shifts a bit sticky 

to maintain the positions we made a simple bit of timber with a slot each end to jam in the door seal flange 

so when tightening down it doesnt shift 

the front bulkhead forward mount to the outrigger is supposed to be sized hole and wont move much 

so its tiltable with packers but no fwd rearward adjustment   the rear tub will move all over the place there is a good 

deal of big hole small bolt adjustment 

its quite DIY no special tools at all

Pete

Really, Pete?   Hmmmmm….   So you can do it in the garage?  No need for a hoist or any special equipment?  And no need to have previous similar experience or expertize?   Now you are tempting me!!!    I’ll think about it some more before I make a decision.

[micmak]

Guys, if I were to try to tackle this, would I need callipers or some precise measuring device?   Surely using a regular household measuring tape is not enough.   I presume I’d need a pack of different sized shims, would I?  I mean, I can’t go jamming in washers here, there, and everywhere and expect a solution.  

[Morgana]

I'd add that it looks like you have a bubble seal in your initial pictures. Once you've adjusted the frame to avoid the rubbing of the panels, I think you'll still have a big slam. My Herald is the same - the doors need a real yank, sometimes several, and I read on here that the original 'flippper' seal is often replaced with a bubble that's too thick. Guess what, mine's got a bubble on it. A new seal is high on the list, if the windows don't break first with all the slamming...

[Pete Lewis]

you really do not need any special tools hoist cranes  just spanners and a bit of elbow grease

once you slacken ALL the rear tub mounts and the joint under the seats the tub will shuffle easy

to get the gap just use some wooden /hardboard as a packer to keep the desired B post gap 

the body manual used tapered wedges of wood   thats triumph for you 

if you cant make an improvement then nip it up and you are back where you started 

do this in a garage or outside even down the pub for easy assistance  its not something to waste you wallet on

supposed specialists will milk you and wont do any more than you can achieve yourself

go on have a twiddle 

if you are unsure where all the mount bolts are ask us here 

as you are not raise/loser the rear tub no packings are needed   the front to tilt the bulkhead can use a large washer 

cut a slot to make it  a C and you can slip them in with out removing any bolts

yes some bolts may be old and shear then there are replacement parts kits available from many suppliers

we are waiting to see you succeed  ha ! 

Pete

[micmak]

11 hours ago, Morgana said:

I'd add that it looks like you have a bubble seal in your initial pictures. Once you've adjusted the frame to avoid the rubbing of the panels, I think you'll still have a big slam. My Herald is the same - the doors need a real yank, sometimes several, and I read on here that the original 'flippper' seal is often replaced with a bubble that's too thick. Guess what, mine's got a bubble on it. A new seal is high on the list, if the windows don't break first with all the slamming...

Morgana, If that becomes an issue later, I will replace it.  But for now, the B post is being hit by the door before it gets near the seal, so it is not causing a problem today.  As you say, it might when I get the alignment better, but we’ll see.

[micmak]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

you really do not need any special tools hoist cranes  just spanners and a bit of elbow grease

once you slacken ALL the rear tub mounts and the joint under the seats the tub will shuffle easy

to get the gap just use some wooden /hardboard as a packer to keep the desired B post gap 

the body manual used tapered wedges of wood   thats triumph for you 

if you cant make an improvement then nip it up and you are back where you started 

do this in a garage or outside even down the pub for easy assistance  its not something to waste you wallet on

supposed specialists will milk you and wont do any more than you can achieve yourself

go on have a twiddle 

if you are unsure where all the mount bolts are ask us here 

as you are not raise/loser the rear tub no packings are needed   the front to tilt the bulkhead can use a large washer 

cut a slot to make it  a C and you can slip them in with out removing any bolts

yes some bolts may be old and shear then there are replacement parts kits available from many suppliers

we are waiting to see you succeed  ha ! 

Pete

Ha ha, Well Pete, I am taking serious encouragement from your last comments.  If I go for moving the rear end back a smidge, and no shims are needed, then it sounds easier than I was fearing.  I am reluctant to try to tilt the bulkhead forward, because the convertible roof is so tight now.  I really need to man-handle the catch assemblies to engage them at the top of the windshield.  If that was tilted forward even 1 or 2 millimetres, I think it would put unnecessary strain on the vinyl roof. The fact that the car was restored should help regarding the possibility of bolts shearing.  I expect all the bolts will loosen easily.

By the way, while examining this whole problem yesterday, I realized that even though the passenger door closes with relative ease, it too hits the B post before the lock mechanism engages. I really think moving the rear end back really is the solution to my problem. I will also adjust the bonnet, but that sounds like a much easier task.  I will leave that for the moment, because it is not impeding my use of the car, whereas the door problem is a real ever-present headache.

Are there any YouTube videos on re-aligning Vitesse body panels?

 

[Pete Lewis]

there probably are you tube clues  but have to say all cars are differing and there is no one fix suits all 

many of us have shoved moved tied to the lamp post methods of tub movements its all a bit individual

there are bolts along the sill side rail  two pairs in the boot outrigger and a pair on the boot tunnel over the diff

then seat belt bolts go through to the chassis and a run of fixings  for the tub joint under the seats 

one trick if all is free is a good tug on the handbrake will pull the tub rearwards if single handed 

so the HB will  need readjusting as you move the HB lever rearwards you gain some slack 

many forget the seat belt bolts    and then things dont move 

its all good fun in getting to know your car dont do too many changes at one go , its good to stand back have a cuppa

then revist

after about ten years the worries die out and the smile gets longer   ha !

Pete

[Gary Flinn]

If your going to have a go do read the Standard Triumph Notes for body build up and adjustment and to tell you where all the body to chassis mounting points are located

One thing not mentioned is you will need to remove the front 3 or 4 sill fixings screws that attach the sills to the front bulkhead/scuttle assembly each side and also to the chassis siderails underneath.

All the rear tub bolts must be loosened including the seat belt Eye bolts and don't forget the two under the rubber grommets either side the spring mounting access plate, you may also find you need to remove some of them too to get the movement you need as well.

It isn't rocket science so give it a go, we are here to help.

Gary

Edited October 4, 2023 by Gary Flinn

[Peter Truman]

Don’t forget to make sure the body is central on the chassis or the wheels are the same in each wheel arch

Don’t ask how I know after getting all the gaps right I suddenly noticed?

[micmak]

On 04/10/2023 at 11:03, Peter Truman said:

Don’t forget to make sure the body is central on the chassis or the wheels are the same in each wheel arch

Don’t ask how I know after getting all the gaps right I suddenly noticed?

That sounds like a good tip, actually.  Thanks.

[micmak]

Hi Guys, Finally, finally, finally, after months of being busy, I have made time to do the body adjustment and move the rear tub backwards a few millimetres.  This morning, I removed the sills below both doors.  I will have to remove all seats also because the carpet in UNDER the front seat rails, so I cannot roll back the carpet with the seats in place. I might be able to just undo the front bolts and tease the carpet out.  Not sure yet. That is my next step this afternoon.   When contemplating my next move, I realized that I have what I am going to call “kick plates” on each door jamb.  Pics attached.  They are riveted in place.  I will need to remove them too, right?  If I loosen up everything, the body will not move with these in place, will it?

Thanks

.....Mick.....

[johny]

Wow at this late stage it might be a bit difficult! I imagine sealant was put between the overlap of the two halves and this will have stuck them😩 Good luck and remember to copaslip any bolts you undo to try and keep them free for any future work...

[Gary Flinn]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

 

Hi Guys, Finally, finally, finally, after months of being busy, I have made time to do the body adjustment and move the rear tub backwards a few millimetres.  This morning, I removed the sills below both doors.  I will have to remove all seats also because the carpet in UNDER the front seat rails, so I cannot roll back the carpet with the seats in place. I might be able to just undo the front bolts and tease the carpet out.  Not sure yet. That is my next step this afternoon.   When contemplating my next move, I realized that I have what I am going to call “kick plates” on each door jamb.  Pics attached.  They are riveted in place.  I will need to remove them too, right?  If I loosen up everything, the body will not move with these in place, will it?

Thanks

.....Mick.....

Mick

Yes the tread plate finisher will stop you moving the rear tub backwards, may I suggest you just drill out the front two rivets that fix it to the front bulkhead?

You will also need to remove a row of Screws or Bolts that hold the front and rear bulkhead joint together and go through the Middle Outriggers.

Don't forget to read the attached Body-build notes, these should help you understand how the body tubs are fixed to the chassis too.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Gary   

Triumph Service Training Notes Herald Body.pdf

Edited July 8 by Gary Flinn

[Pete Lewis]

and dont discount the seat belt /chassis bolts from restricting any movement

and we dont advise tying the rear tub to the lamp post and driving off ( seen that ,can be expensive  ha )

the training notes are not for 50yr old wonky body on a 50 yr old wonky chassis 

dont forget the two bolts into the diff Xmember in the boot 

often the bolts into the boot tail riggers can shear off due to rust 

Pete

 

[micmak]

25 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

and dont discount the seat belt /chassis bolts from restricting any movement

and we dont advise tying the rear tub to the lamp post and driving off ( seen that ,can be expensive  ha )

the training notes are not for 50yr old wonky body on a 50 yr old wonky chassis 

dont forget the two bolts into the diff Xmember in the boot 

often the bolts into the boot tail riggers can shear off due to rust 

Pete

 

Hi Pete, I can't locate the two bolts above the diff area.  I wondered if somehow they were not there at all.  So loosened the 6 bolts in front of the seats, the 2 on each side between the doors and the rear wheels, and the 4 in the rear corners of the boot, 2 each side. I tried to wedge some wood in the door jamb as shown in the Training Notes to “slide” the body back, but all I achieved was to open the gap at the upper end of the B post not down near the bottom.  It is as if the body is NOT sliding on the bolts but it is tipping at the top and holding firm at the bottom.  So those bolts MUST be in the boot, but where????

 

[micmak]

OK I think I found them hiding under the insulation.  OK, Let me work on that, and I’ll report in later.

[micmak]

OK, I loosened ALL bolts.  I put my wedges in the door jamb as per instructions.  I expected the body to move backwards and leave an obvious mark around the bolts in front of the driver’s seat.  But there is nothing.  There are no signs of any movement.  But yet, there MUST have been some movement because the door seems to close a little easier now.  I hope it is not just that I have got used to SLAMMING the door and now I don’t notice it as much.  The door gap looks only slightly bigger than before, but maybe that is enough.  All the bolts are still loose now.  I expected the body to somehow spring back to its original position when I removed my wedges, but it didn’t.  So, has the body moved at all?  The door does seem to close a bit better. Will I settle for this?  I think I will walk away for now, and revisit tomorrow.  Before tightening up all the bolts, I will position the wedges in the door jambs.  Opinions or advice please, Guys?

[micmak]

Original gap:

Gap now 

Edited July 8 by micmak

[Gary Flinn]

Mick

It looks like its moved rearwards slightly to me, although it still looks a bit tight at the bottom of the door?

I'm afraid when these cars have been apart, probably had repairs done to them in the past too, then you just have to get the best compromise you can with the Panel gaps.

They where never like modern cars when they were new, so just accept a few discrepancies and go out and enjoy driving it😊

Regards

Gary   

[Pete Lewis]

when we played around with body off etc we made two simple wooden bars witha slot to fit over the door seal flange and this made sure the gap could not close up while fiddling 

also under the tread strip added a sized hole and countersunk bolt to fix the decided position 

still have the "gap " gauges  will try to get a tape measure on it 

just an idea 

Pete

[micmak]

1 hour ago, Gary Flinn said:

Mick

It looks like its moved rearwards slightly to me, although it still looks a bit tight at the bottom of the door?

I'm afraid when these cars have been apart, probably had repairs done to them in the past too, then you just have to get the best compromise you can with the Panel gaps.

They where never like modern cars when they were new, so just accept a few discrepancies and go out and enjoy driving it😊

Regards

Gary   

I think you are right, Gary.  It IS tighter on the bottom and the gap is more open at the top.   After I posted my last message above, I went out to the garage to tidy up my tools.  I tried the door again, and I have more or less decided that my door slamming skills have improved, and the ease of closing the door has not really improved!  In other words, I have NOT moved the body and I have not improved the situation.  But tomorrow is another day.  In the morning, I will make sure all the bolts are adequately loosened and I’ll try again.

Thanks.

…..Mick…..