Jump to content

Removing RB340 Regulator - Vitesse Mk2


Paul H
 Share

Recommended Posts

HI all just fitting a Stealth Dynamator replacing current Lucas Dynamo C40L 

Because the regulator is behind the dash it was easier to remove completely. The connections made are as in the following pic

5afe9c86bfa0a_regulatorRB340-correct.thumb.jpg.7f6ee4b67d72e04f319439011fe0b604.jpg

No 4 goes to the Dynamator ignition feed & 3 goes to ignition light then on to Ignition switch 

When I tested the Dynamator there was no output as measured with Multimeter across battery terminals .

I then put a direct + feed from battery to Dynamator , then tested and 14 plus volts 

I checked continuity from 4 ( F)  Brown Green to the Junction under the dash and continuity confirmed -

I checked continuity from 3 (WL) ( thin  Brown Yellow ) to ignition switch and NO CONTINUITY - so this is the problem 

I tested the thick Brown Yellow (2 )  or D on the regulator and got continuity to the ignition so my logic was Ive switched the wrong cables 

So I connected 2 & 4  (D & F on the regulator)  and 3 5 & 6 ( WL & B on the regulator ) 

Everything worked perfectly , started fine and Dynamator was giving output - Voltmeter was showing 14 volts 

Tried to start the Vitesse this morning and flat battery so it looks like I was correct in the first place and there is a problem with cable 3 (WL on the regulator , thin Green Yellow) .

Currently battery is disconnected and accepting charge from my Ctek charger and hopefully should be able to recover  

Not sure how to proceed now and any help appreciated

Paul 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, clive said:

WL and F need to be connected (this will switch the alternator on)

All the thick cables joined

Discard the black earth.

Did you get the ignition light on the dash light up as normal?

HI Clive - Yes ignition came on with incorrect set up ie D&F connected 

Paul 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update :

Ive rejoined the cables as they should have been connected

2 thin wires ( Warning Light & Field)

4 wires D & B ( thick Brown / Yellow & 3 thick Brown cables .)

On tick-over there is no output from the Alternator as before as I have no continuity from Ignition (WL & F) - The ignition light comes on as it should then goes out acting normally 

Current read is 12.2 Volts (this is an old battery whilst charging the depleted one )

Is it ok to add a new cable  connecting to thin Brown / Yellow   WL ) and connect to a  spare fused outlet on the Ignition powered fuse box ?

 

NB I now have 2 fuse boxes each with 10 slots - The first fuse box is controlled by the ignition, The second fuse box is direct wired see pic 

All other functions work as they should , lights  ( dipped , side, main ) , indicators , wipers , washers, overdrive, horns , reversing , rear fog, front spots , heater blower , starter , heated seats,  12v socket 

  5afed3796faf5_FuseBox1.thumb.jpg.b297de05d3771e776b228014d437952b.jpg

 

Paul 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think you should expect the WL/F to be connected to ignition. The thinner wire from the generator is the field winding. The other thinner wire connects to the ignition warning lamp, the other end of which is connected to ignition (white wire). On a dynamo, the control box drove the field winding. On an alternator, it's internally conrolled and will be at battery voltage when charging, hence a bulb between there and supply will go out when all is well. That's why the two small wires are connected together (WL to F).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without the data from the dynamator  or what it needs to work 

From days of old especially vauxhall used a extra battery sense lead to add control

All the advice so far is fine for a std 2 wire alternator swap, 

Is there something in this dynamo lookalike that not getting aired ???   Or lost in the small print ???

Pete

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, NonMember said:

I don't think you should expect the WL/F to be connected to ignition. The thinner wire from the generator is the field winding. The other thinner wire connects to the ignition warning lamp, the other end of which is connected to ignition (white wire). On a dynamo, the control box drove the field winding. On an alternator, it's internally conrolled and will be at battery voltage when charging, hence a bulb between there and supply will go out when all is well. That's why the two small wires are connected together (WL to F).

Hi Rob , thanks for your info - The wiring diagram show the WL connected to the Ignition Warning Light (White ) which then goes to Ignition Switch -  When checking there is no continuity between WL & the Ignition switch ,  so there must be break somewhere ?? - If I put a temp + feed onto Alternator the Alternator works . Currently with ignition on , no power goes to Alternator and in turn no output 

5afef8bdbe64f_wffeed.thumb.jpg.b1595cbc6f49597e70a4963468b14df1.jpg

The Dynamator has 2 posts - A 11mm spade  ( I think ) which is the output feed and a straight swop with the dynamo output . I have added a 42amp cable to allow for the extra amps so the cable is now rated at 42 + 23 amps . The only other post is on the top and again switched direct from the dynamo ( other than extending the cable - this being the Brown Green ( F) and there is no break in the this section .

My simple logic ( without understanding the complexities of Alternators ) was to add a separate feed from the ignition side of the new fuse box 
Paul 

dynamator1.thumb.jpg.75bdc04b374570617cea9533cfda1683.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

 

I may be wrong here, but if you earth the WL wire at the regulator box end, and turn the ignition on, the warning light should illuminate? That would be a simple test. 

If you don't have a warning light, you won't know if you have any issues, so I would want one. No downside at all.(except you may have to investigate and fix the wiring, but it can't be much)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the internal wiring of the dynamator is the same as a normal alternator then you do NOT want to connect the F terminal directly to ignition. The warning lamp goes between them - see item 3 on the wiring diagram.

When the engine is not running, the field winding feed (the F terminal) doesn't have voltage on it, so the ignition supply (white wire) from the switch (5) powers the warning lamp (3) through a circuit that includes the field winding. That should be enough current to kick-start the alternator once the engine is running. Do the earthing out test as Clive suggested. Then repeat at the dynamator terminal. If the bulb lights up it should work.

One question - are you sure you've got the terminals at the dynamator the right way round? The small spade on the end doesn't look man enough for the main output. I'd expect the big bolt to be that, and the small spade to be the warning lamp. Remember that Lucas 15ACR uses a 1/4" spade for the light and a PAIR of 3/8" ones for the 35A output. But maybe I'm misinterpreting the photo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, NonMember said:

If the internal wiring of the dynamator is the same as a normal alternator then you do NOT want to connect the F terminal directly to ignition. The warning lamp goes between them - see item 3 on the wiring diagram.

When the engine is not running, the field winding feed (the F terminal) doesn't have voltage on it, so the ignition supply (white wire) from the switch (5) powers the warning lamp (3) through a circuit that includes the field winding. That should be enough current to kick-start the alternator once the engine is running. Do the earthing out test as Clive suggested. Then repeat at the dynamator terminal. If the bulb lights up it should work.

One question - are you sure you've got the terminals at the dynamator the right way round? The small spade on the end doesn't look man enough for the main output. I'd expect the big bolt to be that, and the small spade to be the warning lamp. Remember that Lucas 15ACR uses a 1/4" spade for the light and a PAIR of 3/8" ones for the 35A output. But maybe I'm misinterpreting the photo.

Hi Rob , the connections to the Dynamator are correct as they are a direct swop from the Dynamo , so 2 cables and the spades are different sizes so only go on one way.

Thanks for info I will start checking again tomorrow 

Regards 

Paul 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, clive said:

I may be wrong here, but if you earth the WL wire at the regulator box end, and turn the ignition on, the warning light should illuminate? That would be a simple test. 

If you don't have a warning light, you won't know if you have any issues, so I would want one. No downside at all.(except you may have to investigate and fix the wiring, but it can't be much)

Hi Clive - Turning the key the ignition light comes on as it should with the correct wiring setup ie WL & F connected and goes out with engine going though no output from Alternator 

Adding an earth to the WL & F connection the ignition light goes on - Do I now startup and see if there is output from the Alternator ?

Paul 

Numpty Question - Doing a continuity test from the ignition switch (White cable )  to the F connection . Question will I get continuity with a Multi Meter as the cable goes through the ignition light ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul, This may Help.

Dave.

 

ALTERNATOR CONVERSION, WIRING.

Given below are the wiring instructions for the installation of an alternator:

1.0       ALTERNATOR

a)         Connect the existing large wire marked Brown/Yellow to the large outer or centre tag of the three connections. This wire is the main supply feed line.

B)         Connect the small lead marked Brown/Green to the small outer tag. This wire is normally connected to the control box to regulate the dynamo output. But after the modification it will be used feed the ignition light.

 

I

Output to Main Power Feed (Large)

I

Output to Main Power Feed (Large)

I

Output to Ignition Light (Small)

 

Connection socket on alternator

 

2.0       CONTROL BOX

The alternator contains its own regulator (control box) therefore the conversion will remove the need for this part of the car’s electrical circuit. In effect you will be bypassing the control box and allowing the alternator to directly feed the vehicle’s electrical equipment. This is carried out as follows:

a)         Unplug all of the large leads from the control box.

B)         Connect the alternator main feed lead, Brown/Yellow, to all of the vehicle equipment leads, Brown.

c)         Unplug the two small Brown leads.

d)         These leads form the feed to the ignition light and should be connected together. The colours are Brown/Green from the alternator and Brown/Yellow to the ignition light.

e)         Unplug the small black earth lead and insulate to prevent it shorting out other connections in the same area.

The small leads conveniently have a male and female connector each end and are simply plugged together.

 

However, as there are three large main feed leads to be joined this will require a three way jointer to be made up. The following are some ideas which may help.

 

a)         An old control box can be adapted to cross connect the wires.

 

B)         A simple three-way male tag connector can be made up from copper strip

 

c)         A two-to-one jumper lead with standard male tag connectors each end can be made up and used to connect the leads.

 

The copper tag or jumper lead must have the same current rating, size, as the leads it

is joining. Also make sure there are no bare connections that could come into contact

with the body of the car, metal parts and other connections. Remember there are very high currents involved and as a result a high risk of fire if the work is not carried out correctly.

 

Now turn the ignition on and ensure the ignition light comes on. Start the engine and ensure the ignition light goes out. If you are using the original Dynamo crank pulley then the light may come on when the engine is running at tick-over.

If you have a voltmeter, connect this across the battery and check the voltage at 2500 rpm. This should steady give a reading between 14.0 and 14.4 Volts.

 

Dave Rumens

08/05/00

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure that this still applies but way back when,   with differing pulley sizes and idle revs  you could change the cut in by changing the wattage of the warning bulb

doenst help here but  5w will pull the cut in down to some lower revs .

this is more looking like a  regulator problem in the new unit 

Pete

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both the four and six cylinder engines which had an alternator as standard were fitted with a larger crank pulley. This increase the fan belt speed. When you carry out a conversion from a dynamo the ignition light  may still come on at tick over due to the smaller crank pulley giving a slower speed than that required by the alternator.

If this is giving you grief, then on the Vitesse Mk2 engine to over come this you need to fit a crank pulley from a Mk2 2000 Saloon which is the correct size..

Pete, keep your bonnet shut Mate!

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty sure the Alternator issue is fixed 

Taking on Dave's theory of wrong size pulley I ran the engine with Volt Meter attached - Start was 12.5 V - Old battery  1,000 revs no change - 2000 revs and Alternator (Dynamator)  kicked in rising to 13.4 and climbing . Were away next week so will  put back the Regulator so we can switch back to dynamo if necessary -

The 3 main large spades are connected to  a copper shunt & put spades back on WL & F cables + male spade connector and spade on earth . Going on a test run tomorrow so will be able to clarify whether the current set up is going to work 

shunt1.jpg.35512a381da57f8ce6d4a556697824f5.jpg

Thanks again to all inputs and glad the solution was simple - Im certainly wiser !!

Paul 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 when they fitted alternators to Walk Thru and Bantams which had the old  awful Standard OE160 diesel   peaked at 2000 if you were lucky

and as only urban use getting  any charge was  a problem  , bigger  crank pulley wasnt an option   and i guess they would have had a seperate regulator  in them days   ...nice that things move on to better days 

Pete

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul, if you have the earlier large pulley on the generator then this too will reduce the charge. I would guess you have the worst situation, a small pulley on the crank and a large pulley on the generator. The later smaller pulley on the generator would help.

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...