1975 Spitfire 1500 Restoration

[Conor L]

Thought I'd give a bit of an update on the caliper situation along with other things. After a little bit of research, measuring and swapping about turns out that I do indeed have the wrong caliper and the seller advised just to grind it out a bit which I don't really feel that happy about doing. Aside from the issues with the caliper the front end rebuild is now complete with just the copper brake pipes to route. Btw I have tidied up since this picture 

So with that end done my attention has now turned to the rear of the chassis starting with the Diff as this will be the 1st component to go back on. Unfortunately pictures are lacking here. On 1st inspections the Diff was in a right mess covered with 40 years of grease, dirt and oil. I removed the input/output flanges then split the case in half the reveal 1 very clean wear free diff, Happy Days over the weekend I have degreased the case and that's all ready for reassembly. Now moving on to the drive shafts. After searching the internet I managed to score a second hand hub puller for a reasonable price which arrived today (If anyone wishes to borrow this in the future feel free to drop me a PM) after wrapping up warm I took a brave pill and faced the almost tropical temperature and went outside to see if my hubs will play ball. 

Unfortunately things didn't quite go how I wanted them to due to the fact the hub is still on the shaft and the wheel nets decided to strip their threads (thankfully the studs are ok) Now because I'm strange I no longer work in a garage but instead sit behind a desk all day collecting council tax and being swore at because an enforcement agent is at someones property (I know quite a change in career) this means I no longer have access to heat so im a bit stuck for ideas. I know people have had problems before with removing these troublesome hubs so all tips and tricks are welcome.

On a side note I had a great day at the NEC last Sunday walking around some amazing cars and the TSSC looked pretty impressive with all of the lovely Heralds on show, I would've come over and said Hello but all of a sudden lost confidence for some reason. There was also this lovely Mimosa Spitfire which gave me an idea of how my car looked back in 75

Also this week I shall be going over to the start work on the underside of the tub, stripping it back to bare metal which means I will need to make my mind up on what colour I'd like. Something I have never really talked about on this thread is how I actually want my car to look like. I have had a vision in my head since I 1st saw a Spitfire 6 years ago in my high school car park as pictured below,

I recently saw a car on google which is more or less exactly how I want mine to look 

with these wheels 

So there's a slight insight on where this whole idea came from and what id like the end result to be. I think you've had enough of me waffling on now but thank you for all of the support so far and I promise in the next big update there will be more pictures!

Conor

[Conor L]

1st update for New Year and the New Decade so Happy New Year to everyone on the TSSC forum!

Things have been pretty steady over the Christmas period  including driving around the area looking at all the lights, starting a new job back on the spanners and giving the daily some TLC (Scrubs up well for a £70 car)

But more importantly there has been progress with the spit starting with completion of the chassis 

With that out of the way I contacted the restorer regarding the tub and shooted over there the following weekend to flip the tub upside down and start prepping the underside for paint 

Over the past couple of weekends I've been at it with a wire wheel which ultimately revealed a few pin holes but on the plus side the underseal did the job by protecting the remaining metal 

after a quick wipe down the 1st coat of Hydrate 80 was applied 

that pretty much brings us up to date I shall be going over next weekend to finish cleaning up the floor and lower bulkhead, applying more Hydrate 80 then it will be over to the restorer to apply the zinc primer, seem seal, stone chip and top coat. Safe to say that the very near future is looking very exciting for this little car even though I still cant decide what colour red to paint it.

Conor 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

That'a amazing work, and well done. When you've finished that one you can come here and do this Herald for me. I started, got bored, and went off to do other things. My underseal seems quite soft; inclined to smear, and clog the stripping tools very easily, plus the bits fly everywhere! As I have the same electric drill as you I'm keen for any tips that will make it easier.

 

[Conor L]

9 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

That'a amazing work, and well done. When you've finished that one you can come here and do this Herald for me. I started, got bored, and went off to do other things. My underseal seems quite soft; inclined to smear, and clog the stripping tools very easily, plus the bits fly everywhere! As I have the same electric drill as you I'm keen for any tips that will make it easier.

 

Thanks for the continued support Colin finally feeling like I'm getting somewhere now. The underside was plastered in underseal in some places it was very thick, I used a blow torch to warm up the underseal and then used a standard scraper to scrape it off, quite time consuming but worked well. After that I went over the area with the wire wheel on a grinder and a wire brush on the good old Black & Decker for the tighter spots.

[Colin Lindsay]

I was afraid you'd say that.

[Conor L]

following the last update I have since cleaned up the remaining arears on the floor pan and coated with hydrate 80 which means that its now over to the restorer to paint the underside of the tub ready to bolt back onto the chassis 

Before the chassis goes back to the restorer I wanted to fit the engine and fire it up as I have never had it running in my ownership plus I rebuilt it in 2018 and just want to check its going to work. Unfortunately there's 1 problem, The gearbox. when we took the engine & gearbox out in 2018 I discovered that the gearbox is knackered, when I removed the top cover I saw that all reverse parts were not in a good way it actually looks like someone put it in reverse at 50 mph. This left me with 3 options Buy a second hand unit and pray it works, Buy a reconditioned unit or rebuilt the original, because I like a challenge I decided to rebuilt the original. After stripping down the gearbox we can see the worst of the damage

The worst being the laygear  cluster 

Thankfully I managed to source a good second hand cluster, 1st & 2nd gear selector hub and a NOS idler gear on Ebay otherwise he box would've been scrap. I also ordered a rebuild kit from Rimmer Bros which has all of the essential parts to assemble the box. When all the parts arrived I got to work reassembling the mainshaft and replacing the inputshaft bearing 

And also putting the needle roller bearings  into the cluster (that wasn't fun) old vs new

With all this done I attempted to rebuild the gearbox 1st was to place the cluster at the bottom which is where we've hit a problem. The kit I ordered from Rimmers contained new cluster thrust washers however I was unable to fit 1 of them when the cluster was in, thinking they were just too big I tried refitting the old washers same thing happened, the larger of the 2 washers fits nicely however when I try to fit the 2nd smaller washer the gap between the cluster and the gearbox casing doesn't seem large enough and this isn't something that covered very well in either the workshop manual or on the internet. is there something I'm doing wrong? any help and advice is always welcome starting to wish I bought a recon.

Conor

[Pete Lewis]

make  sure the cluster is not pitched this closes the thrust gap up 

may need a jiggle to allow it to drop in

i always have a dummy input in a vice and lower the case and mainshaft assy down onto this so gravity keeps 1st and 2nd down or the split thrusts drop out , doing it vertical may sound daft but you can tap the brg down on the shaft and into the case , do it in a vertical plane and one tap on the brg. and the gear jumps and out they pop

 the gears  can be wired up but thats another option  

if it has overdrive  dont forget the woodruff key for the pump cam

Pete

 

[johny]

according to my WSM (Vitesse/GT6 but very similar) any laygear should always fit in any gearbox with any thrusts and the play should be reduced to the correct tolerance by the mix/matching of different components. Of course thrusts are probably now pattern parts so they might not fall in the range of 0.123 - 0.125 thou for the front and 0.066 - 0.068 thou the rear. If yours are larger than this and dont fit then other than source a smaller laygear or bigger casing the only other possibility is to remove metal from the reverse of the thrusts....

[thescrapman]

I think that amount of damage is par for the course in a single rail gearbox.

i think  it is something To do with the mechanism allowing you to engage reverse before the laygear or idler has stopped spinning.

Does not seem to happen to the 3-rail as badly.

[Pete Lewis]

the only advantage of single rail is the larger mainshaft spigot , the  rest is a cost reduced orrible ,  bad enough when marina's were allowed on the road luckily it didnt survive much of the dolly range mainly 3 rail or big saloon 

add the mix and doesnt match swap of 3rail  a 1 rail parts and you get a hybrid load of expensive  rubbish with wrong tooth counts  and slack  rattle fit  hub splines 

i guess this means i dont like them  Ha !

Pete

 

 

[Conor L]

Thanks to all who replied to my gearbox query all advice is much appreciated! After some jiggling I did manage to line up the laygear with the thrust washers which wasn't easy due to a tight space with big hands. with that hurdle out of the way I placed the nos reverse idle gear at the bottom of the gearbox, then I could slide in the main shaft being carful not the lose the c washers (grease helped with this) then the input shaft was pressed into place 

when this was complete I installed the selector forks and then jiggled the rear extension into place with a fresh gasket, bearing and oil seal 

I'm pleased to report that all gears select nicely and the gearbox turns freely which I'm quite proud of. All that remains is to fit the bell housing, top cover and output flange then I can give it a fresh lick of gloss black paint to match the engine.

Massive update on the tub I had a text yesterday from the restorer to say that he has finished painting the underside so after work this afternoon I drove straight over there to have a look and I wasn't disappointed 

As I'm sure you'll agree it looks great and I'm very happy with the finish just as I wanted it. It was quite difficult to chose what shade of red I wanted but after a lot of thought I settled with Ford Radiant Red which is pretty close to signal red. Next weekend I'm hoping to fit the engine and gearbox into the chassis and fire it up for the 1st time since 1984! Which brings me onto the question of what oils to use in the engine, gearbox and diff. I know the engine should have 20w50 however I'm unsure whether to use a cheaper oil to run the engine in with or not as always any advice is welcome. I shall also be at Stoneleigh tomorrow for the spares day and wish everyone a safe journey in the high winds and rain.

Conor

[Pete Lewis]

i would stick with a good brand 20/50 ..why use a cheap to run in when you need good protection??   

gearbox and diff  and  trunnions EP80/90 GL4 spec   not GL5 

grease any multipurpose  prop rear bearings front hubs steering rack 

brake fluid  DOT4  unless you want silicon

daspots engine oil 

door hinges throttles and anything that moves  engine oil

 

[Conor L]

On 09/02/2020 at 09:01, Pete Lewis said:

i would stick with a good brand 20/50 ..why use a cheap to run in when you need good protection??   

gearbox and diff  and  trunnions EP80/90 GL4 spec   not GL5 

grease any multipurpose  prop rear bearings front hubs steering rack 

brake fluid  DOT4  unless you want silicon

daspots engine oil 

door hinges throttles and anything that moves  engine oil

 

Thanks for the info Pete picked up some Castrol 20w50 at stoneleigh yesterday makes sense to use a quality oil on a freshly rebuilt engine. I'll order some gear oil this week too 

[alan.gilbert_6384]

On 14/01/2020 at 10:25, Colin Lindsay said:

That'a amazing work, and well done. When you've finished that one you can come here and do this Herald for me. I started, got bored, and went off to do other things. My underseal seems quite soft; inclined to smear, and clog the stripping tools very easily, plus the bits fly everywhere! As I have the same electric drill as you I'm keen for any tips that will make it easier.

 

Hi Colin, I used a multi tool with a scraper blade (various sizes), no clogging and little mess flying around

[Conor L]

Following on from the last update I needed to get my skates on and finish the chassis by fitting the engine and gearbox to see if it'll run. Thankfully I no longer work in a office collecting council tax and I'm back on the spanners so I was able to borrow a van and the engine crane. Before this I fitted a new Borg and Beck clutch kit and mated the engine and gearbox together.

My neighbours think I'm mad already for cleaning my car every 2-3 weeks but their faces were priceless when they saw me doing this in the dark

Thankfully the engine went in with no trouble at all. I then set about prepping the engine to start it, I filled the engine and gearbox with oil, charged a battery at work and went to crank it over, Nothing, took the starter off and it was dead, this is where the issues start. I took the starter to an electrics specialist down the road from work and had it rebuilt, fitted it and cranks over, I made a oil pressure light from a bulb holder from a Citroen C1 and made some wiring up for the coil. With the plugs removed I checked for oil pressure and spark both of which I have, result, had to recharge the battery as it was becoming weak, refitted the spark plugs and the engine will only crank 1 revolution very slowly and pack up. Started to scratch my head so borrowed the jump pack from work, only cranked 2 slow revolutions (Jump pack not fully charged). I purchased a new battery and its still the same so I'm really scratching my head could it be the starter isn't man enough to crank the engine over under compression? I'll post some videos up later to explain whats happening.

Conor 

[Pete Lewis]

apart from any earthing lacking it sounds like a field winding has failed 

Pete

[Conor L]

31 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

apart from any earthing lacking it sounds like a field winding has failed 

Pete

I think the earth is ok as I've got the jump lead going from the battery to 1 of the starter bolts. I did wonder if the starter was at fault but wouldn't they have picked that up when it was rebuilt?

Conor

[johny]

I take it turns over by hand with a spanner on the crank bolt nice and easy without sparkplugs? As Pete says the electrical connections are very important, both earth and positive and sometimes jump leads dont make very solid connections so when theres a high current flow on starting a large volt drop is produced. Normally you see smoke or sparks at the lead clamps and the voltage reduction means the starter struggles.

If you do get good connections and it still does it you could try to borrow a starter motor from someone and try that....

[Conor L]

21 minutes ago, johny said:

I take it turns over by hand with a spanner on the crank bolt nice and easy without sparkplugs? As Pete says the electrical connections are very important, both earth and positive and sometimes jump leads dont make very solid connections so when theres a high current flow on starting a large volt drop is produced. Normally you see smoke or sparks at the lead clamps and the voltage reduction means the starter struggles.

If you do get good connections and it still does it you could try to borrow a starter motor from someone and try that....

With the plugs removed engine turns nicely with a ratchet and with the plugs in you can feel quite a bit of compression. just to clarify that if sparks and smoke is produced I have a bad connection?

[johny]

yes you have a connection which would be perfectly ok for supplying a bulb but when the starter motor energises your looking at 100s of amps which, passing through the same connection, will produce heat and reduce the voltage on the starter motor terminals. Its the area of metal that is connected together which is important which is why bolted connections are used in the starter circuit. Can you put the jump cable clamps onto the battery leads so that they make a better connection? 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 12/01/2020 at 22:01, Conor L said:

 

 

There's an interesting thing, Conor - not anything wrong, but still made me think recently when I did the same on my Herald - the rear brake pipe that connects the union to the driver's side hose is unsupported and held there only by its' own rigidity. I noticed the Herald one was inclined to move about and was wondering in any kind of brake clip to the rear of the chassis would help? Just thinking out loud here, must nip out to the garage now that you've put the idea in my head...

[Conor L]

1 hour ago, johny said:

yes you have a connection which would be perfectly ok for supplying a bulb but when the starter motor energises your looking at 100s of amps which, passing through the same connection, will produce heat and reduce the voltage on the starter motor terminals. Its the area of metal that is connected together which is important which is why bolted connections are used in the starter circuit. Can you put the jump cable clamps onto the battery leads so that they make a better connection? 

Following your advice Johny ive just been out in the garage, instead of using the jump lead to earth the engine I dug out the original negative lead, bolted onto the gearbox and also using the jump pack on the battery terminals has fixed the issue turning over lovely now with plugs in so thank you for the advice!

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

There's an interesting thing, Conor - not anything wrong, but still made me think recently when I did the same on my Herald - the rear brake pipe that connects the union to the driver's side hose is unsupported and held there only by its' own rigidity. I noticed the Herald one was inclined to move about and was wondering in any kind of brake clip to the rear of the chassis would help? Just thinking out loud here, must nip out to the garage now that you've put the idea in my head...

Funny you should bring this up Colin because I've wondered the same, I did notice that there are 2 holes in the chassis where that pipe routes (1 either side) and I did purchase some clips same plastic clips that hold the front to rear brake pipe in place however they didn't fit the holes at the back and looking at several pictures on the internet confirms that the pipe is held there by its own rigidity.

[johny]

I was right? Blimey at this rate I might end up 2nd Dan🤗

[alan.gilbert_6384]

Hi all,

I think there is only one clip, a bent bit of strip steel welded to the chassis, brilliant 60's engineering or what  sorry the pictures upside down.

[Colin Lindsay]

Thanks Alan, although you did confuse me with the route of that exhaust until I realised it was upside down..