Mk3Spitfire Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Hi, A few months ago something fairly catastrophic happened to my engine. I managed to limp it off the main road and have finally managed to get someone to have a look at it. It would appear that a valve snapped, which has damaged a con rod and one of the pistons. It also caused two of the rocker arms to shatter. My guy has taken the head off and that's what he's found so far but hasn't gone further. So how I see it is either buy the various components i.e a con rod (£150-250), valves, piston, and rocker arm assembly (which I already have), gaskets and replace the various bits, or buy a whole new engine. I am guessing that the new engine option would actually cost less in terms of labour costs than the individual parts, and there is always the worry that he may find something else damaged as he goes further into the engine. So basically I was wondering what peoples opinions were or if they could give me any advice. Not many relevant engines about on ebay at the moment, certainly not for under a grand. I also appreciate that buying a new engine could come with its own risks in that it may be just as bad as mine. The whole thing is fairly frustrating as I had a full engine rebuild probably less than a thousand miles ago, but such is life. Car: 1969 Mk 3 Spitfire (1300) electronic ignition, fairly standard otherise. Owner: Limited mechanical knowledge. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, Mk3Spitfire said: Hi, So how I see it is either buy the various components i.e a con rod (£150-250), valves, piston, and rocker arm assembly (which I already have), gaskets and replace the various bits, or buy a whole new engine. That would appear to be the options; (second-hand unrestored engines are hit and miss, you can get good or bad and never quite know which but they can get you mobile in emergencies but there's a Mk3 engine on Ebay at present for £50.) The bit where you're saying that your mechanic may find more things damaged the deeper he goes could mean you'll end up wasting money on a scrap engine; but it may also simply require the one con rod and piston with a few of the smaller ancillaries also. Has the valve also damaged the head? A full engine rebuild kit is around £500 and after that, labour costs; an already reconditioned one is about £200 more, sometimes with an exchange surcharge added. It all depends on whether you want to keep the original engine or are happy with a rebuilt exchange version; personally if I was having an entire engine rebuild I'd start with my own original unit, unless it was beyond saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireGeorge Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 I am currently re-building my Mk3 engine. It has cost a small fortune with balancing, new pistons, new bearings, new unleaded cylinder head, new camshaft and duplex timing gear. It will have cost over £1000 by the time I have finished it. Obviously non-standard but if I just wanted a standard Mk3 one I would buy a reconditioned unit with guarantee. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3Spitfire Posted October 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said: That would appear to be the options; (second-hand unrestored engines are hit and miss, you can get good or bad and never quite know which but they can get you mobile in emergencies but there's a Mk3 engine on Ebay at present for £50.) The bit where you're saying that your mechanic may find more things damaged the deeper he goes could mean you'll end up wasting money on a scrap engine; but it may also simply require the one con rod and piston with a few of the smaller ancillaries also. Has the valve also damaged the head? A full engine rebuild kit is around £500 and after that, labour costs; an already reconditioned one is about £200 more, sometimes with an exchange surcharge added. It all depends on whether you want to keep the original engine or are happy with a rebuilt exchange version; personally if I was having an entire engine rebuild I'd start with my own original unit, unless it was beyond saving. Thanks for that. I don't think the head has been damaged, at least he didn't mention that. I saw the £50 ebay engine, but am just vary wary that it may be a complete dud. But if it goes cheap I may have a dabble. I don't really care that much about keeping the original engine except for the fact that I had it completely overhauled at a cost of nearly £2K for what has essentially been a few hundred miles. Also had it converted to unleaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3Spitfire Posted October 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 42 minutes ago, SpitfireGeorge said: I am currently re-building my Mk3 engine. It has cost a small fortune with balancing, new pistons, new bearings, new unleaded cylinder head, new camshaft and duplex timing gear. It will have cost over £1000 by the time I have finished it. Obviously non-standard but if I just wanted a standard Mk3 one I would buy a reconditioned unit with guarantee. Cheers. I think that reconditioned is probably winning at the moment. Seems a lot easier and less hassle for not an awful lot more money. There are a couple of adverts on eBay for recon with a 12 month guarantee. At least then id have a little bit of a safety blanket if it was all to go south again. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Good move, unless you want to rebuild! But don't just put the old one in the recycling bin. More useful to recycle it through the reconditioners. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Bear in mind most recons involve the exchange unit to be in a re workable condition or the surcharge is not refundable Club rebuilds are done by ivor seal and having had a tour around their factory its impressive with everything measured and recorded clean and detailed quality control throughout One wonders what went wrong with your rebuild, , these engines dont drop a valve or break a stem in normal use unless something was Not as it should be!!!! The bad luck maywell have been bad work Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3Spitfire Posted October 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: Bear in mind most recons involve the exchange unit to be in a re workable condition or the surcharge is not refundable Club rebuilds are done by ivor seal and having had a tour around their factory its impressive with everything measured and recorded clean and detailed quality control throughout One wonders what went wrong with your rebuild, , these engines dont drop a valve or break a stem in normal use unless something was Not as it should be!!!! The bad luck maywell have been bad work Pete I did look at the club shop, but the ones on there were between £2k and £3k which just seems a little steep to me. I do wonder what went wrong. The more I think about it, I think its probably closer to 500 miles than a thousand. This was probably 4 years ago now though, so not worth me challenging. What would cause a valve to sheer off like that? It was literally a few minutes after pulling off, and certainly not under heavy use. If I had been able to pull over sooner the damage would probably have been less, but it was on a terrible stretch of road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3Spitfire Posted October 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnD said: Good move, unless you want to rebuild! But don't just put the old one in the recycling bin. More useful to recycle it through the reconditioners. John To be honest I just want the cheapest option to get the thing back on the road. I am in for way, way more than the car is worth already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 Such is the usual situation! You never, ever make a profit ona classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 You never make money on a hobby. I do get paid occasionally for photography- my other big hobby - but it comes no where close to covering the cost of the gear - doesn’t even cover the cost of the annual insurance. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Mk3Spitfire said: I did look at the club shop, but the ones on there were between £2k and £3k which just seems a little steep to me. I do wonder what went wrong. The more I think about it, I think its probably closer to 500 miles than a thousand. This was probably 4 years ago now though, so not worth me challenging. What would cause a valve to sheer off like that? It was literally a few minutes after pulling off, and certainly not under heavy use. If I had been able to pull over sooner the damage would probably have been less, but it was on a terrible stretch of road. Did you have new valves installed? I come from a heavy engineering background and one thing we always consider when planning to overhaul machinery is the risk of actually making things worse! Any new component used can be faulty and, in this case, the valve could have had a manufacturing defect that caused it to fail. Another possibility is that an error is made in the installation work such as leaving too tight a tolerance between valve and guide so that in operation it seizes however here I wouldnt have expected the valve to break..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 If you want it back on the road quickly i have just removed a 1300 from my Herald in order to fit a 1500,its unknown mileage and spec, as it came as a spare with the car i rescued after being off the road for 30 years,it`s an FH engine so large bearing. I took the head off before fitting it and saw it has +20 pistons,so must have been rebuilt in the 70`s.I ran it in my Herald for 5 years including completing the CT Round Britain run in it in 2014. If it was me i would get the car on the road and then fix the original engine over time. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 13 hours ago, Anglefire said: You never make money on a hobby. I do get paid occasionally for photography- my other big hobby - but it comes no where close to covering the cost of the gear - doesn’t even cover the cost of the annual insurance. ? Unless you can get grants for it. I've stopped temporarily (hopefully very temporarily!) but a few years back there were grants available for any kind of 'cross community' work, so I was playing folk music with a Bulgarian band, an Ulster-Scots folk group, and Greek musicians, getting all-expenses paid trips to places like London, playing a few tunes and songs, and sometimes getting up to £150 per performance. It really was money for old rope, and it was in yesterday's local paper once again encouraging anyone involved in this sort of thing to apply for funding. Nearly every town or village here has a 'community hall' built through some scheme or other, and you could probably make a regular living, going from one to the other, playing a few tunes and getting loads of free tea and home made scones... Apologies to the OP for hi-jacking his thread (it happens here a lot!) but as Steve says I'd be inclined to get the car back on the road asap, with any kind of engine, to get some enjoyment out of it, then work on a really good replacement or rebuild the original again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3Spitfire Posted October 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 OK, so I think I will keep an eye out for a cheap engine just to tide me over and then rebuild slow time. On that note then, are there any other engines that people know of that are a direct swap? I don't want to start messing with everything else if I can help it, but if there is another engine out there it increases my chance of finding a half decent temporary one. What is an FH engine sorry, and how does that affect things?# Also, hijack away! Appreciate the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 FH is 1296 mkIV Spitfire , Theres no real complications Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 FH is just larger bearings on the crank,supposedly less tuneable if you want to rev the nuts of it,small bearing crank required for that. You wouldn`t notice the difference in a standard car,i ran it with a 3.63 diff and overdrive gearbox and it would sit happily at 70+ on a run. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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