rogerguzzi Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 Hello All I thought I would start a new thread I have been looking at the baulk rings for wear but know were in the Spitfire, Vitesse or TR6 manual tells you how to check them? But in my old TR2 manual it says 0.035" to 0.040" new Gap and 0.005" to 0.010" off this for used but I assume within spec? I have several that I can mix and match all Triumph as far as I Know. So what are the thoughts on this? The gearbox was ok on changes except 1st! I will test the hubs for load and perhaps aim at the upper level for 1st and 2nd? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 So long as the ring will "ring" onto the cone with some firm rotation, have absolutley no rock, and the chamfer on thebdog teeth on the ring and the sleeve are clean well defined /\ angled flat surfaced teeth as these give the 1/2 tooth baulk (rock over) before synchronising they should work ok providing there is some gap and not bottoming out. Easy way to test the sleeve detents is put it in a poly bag and press it thro on some scales , get someone to read the scales while you Fire all the balls into the bag when you press toooo far Ha ! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 looking very closely with a magnifying glass at the ring inner grooves can also give an indication of how much use it has had. This cant tell you if its no good but at least helps to put them in order of wear which can then be used to decide where to place each one in the rebuilt box - worn 1st, best 2nd, next best 3rd, worn 4th etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 there a a bigg diff in syncros frae each other, me own box, { Dolly 1850 / Mrina, TR7 } I tried 20 odd, this t,get the biggest rear end gap, some were 10-12 thou sorted 4 oot wid 40-55 thou gaps It also depends on yer actual gear too, as the gears cones either wear,or they undersize t,start wid, same too f,the TR / Saloon type also best t,blue up the cone, see where its actually fit,n some dont fit v weel at all, as alot of,em seem ..oot of round !! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Hello All Thank's for the information I have been testing the syncro hubs I found the 1st / 2nd is to weak(could explain the bit of crunching going in to 1st while moving?) I have ordered a set of new springs from Moss and I can have another play at getting to Triumph spec's(the empty gearbox case gets close to the weight needed plus a lump of cast iron!) I shall have a good look at all the cups in all positions to find the best set and position I can(I wonder if I would be allowed to do that on the dinning table in the warm?) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 just give it a press thro on some scales bathroom or kitchen , dont want gear case ingress at A&E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Hello All I have had a sort out of baulk rings by selective trial What I have finished up with is 1st gear = 0.042" 2nd = 0.043" 3rd = 0.042" 4th = 0.042" So I am happy with that. I was looking at the sycro hubs (I marked the position they were in but looking at the position of the balls you can see the slight wear marks! So when I get the new springs would it be better to start on an unworn position? or the worn position working on the theory less likely to change as already worn in? I assume this is one of the reasons for Triumph figures of 19lb to 21lb 3rd&4th and 19lb to 27lb 1st & 2nd I know I am going to a lot of trouble but I want this gearbox to see me out! (and these parts are pence) I think I will have only spent about £100 on the complete job of all new (quality) bearings and all new o/rings in the overdrive and gaskets Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 The loads on the sleeve detents give a snap to the gear selection ie helps you make a positive shift effort Stops you from letting go halfway thro a change, I would rotate the sleeve to get the balls to run on unworn splines From experience you may have trouble getting the load near the spec., you can shim till the spring is coil bound and thats no use . Equal spring detent load around the sleeve is more important, xont ask how you test that !! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: The loads on the sleeve detents give a snap to the gear selection ie helps you make a positive shift effort Stops you from letting go halfway thro a change, I would rotate the sleeve to get the balls to run on unworn splines From experience you may have trouble getting the load near the spec., you can shim till the spring is coil bound and thats no use . Equal spring detent load around the sleeve is more important, xont ask how you test that !! Pete Hello Pete I must admit that is what I thought To be silly I could measure the springs for length then measure them for compression rate (this is getting silly?) but still better than Scubedo do puzzles? Roger ps it makes you wonder how close Triumph were to these figures when churning them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 On trucks we only checked detent loads when my guys stripped units for audit On production line it all went together based on if made to drawing it did what it said on the tin I would build it up (in poly bag) and if you get a good feeling snap clunk click without flying balls ...go with it Or you can ponce about for ages and achieve very little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Hello All New springs etc arrived today so I reassembled them and tested with big weights and the 1st and second is much stronger now(should help going into 1st on slow down? The 3rd and 4th are stronger as well but I expect they will all reduce a bit with use? I found a small piece of clip on the magnetic sump plug and did not know were it came from I do now! circlip on main shaft I fitted new needle roller to the layshaft and tried it for play and its 0.013" to 0.014" so just in tolerance but when I offered the O/D adapter plate to the box I could push the layshaft back 3/16"!!! but I could see nothing in manuals about this so I made a small spacer to fit in the case and now its about 0.020" What is the clip on the output shaft for? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 The flat sprung clip,is a triumph idea, Places like OD spares have no idea about it, (when I last asked) seems to be some anti chatter device, and damps the annulus hub slide .....Rimmers sell it The square section circlip , there is only two one backs up the rear bearing, these do break , allows the mainshaft to shift gives synchro problems, due to end floats. Smaller one holds 3rd gear in place far end of mainshaft, OD pump cam has a round circlip it not that Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Hello Pete It is the 3rd gear one not sure if I fitted a new one 30,000 miles ago when first assembled from 2 gearboxes and 2 O/D's The spring clip is an interesting theory! Roger ps my problem(well one of them?) being a retired engineer I and always trying to re engineer things as you have probably realised! its fun though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 That third gear circlip is notorious for breaking or escaping. Similar issues on the big T / TR boxes too. When rebuilding my PI box I had persistent issues with it as the process of fitting it was stretching it to the point where it wouldn’t sit down properly into the groove. I tried clips from several sources but all were similar. In the end I used Spiralox following a tip from Steve Smith in Vegas. He also sourced the clips for me as I couldn’t find a UK source or a US one that would ship outside US. Worked a treat and rather easier to fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Is it a myth, that Triumph boxes are easy to rebuild "correctly"?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 They are the same as many other makes and easier than a 18spd truck box Most have simple contruction and can be repaired without special tools , just some care and attention to detail and everything is possible One tip on shaft circlips never re use one , always renew, dont over stretch them when fitting . Circlip failures is not just triumph Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hello All I shall make a tool to go over the shaft with a taper to just the same size as the shaft to save over stretching it! I found a few suppliers for 20mm https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p20115157/Major-Branded-SW20-Snap-Ring-to-Suit-20mm-Shaft/product_info.html https://springfasteners.co.uk/product/external-snap-ring-m2400-20mm-bag-qty-30-pcs/ Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 yes a cone just enough to get the clip to start on the spline , I use a socket that a neat fit to pop the clip on the start of the shaft, line it all,up and a light tap then feed it down the splines pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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