Trunnions

[PeaTear]

I can hear it now "not another trunnion thread🙄"

but I'm looking some advice from you guys with much more experience than I have. 

I'm currently going through a major service with the car and as I have no idea as to the history of the trunnions would I be best to replace them or would checking to see if they have been greased or oiled and if greased strip clean and reoil?  

[Guest]

I would certainly try using EP90 oil and see if that comes out easily once the trunnion is full. If it looks as though it's struggling to get out I would suspect grease having been used previously; in that case it is a strip down to be certain.

If the grease nipple is currently in situ, then undo it and check to see if there is any grease residue. If blanking plate in situ, then remove that and have a dig inside with a thin blade screwdriver and see what you can dig out - you will soon see if grease or oil, the latter of course being the correct lubricant to use for these.

Regards.

Richard.

[PeaTear]

They have been greased.  Got the LH oiled, but didnt see any grease coming out. The RH, well I thought there was a grease nipple on it, turns out it was just a big lump of dirt or underseal and the remains of whatever had been used to plug the hole.

Am I best just replacing both or would it be worthwhile stripping both and try to repair the RH trunnion?

[johny]

as youll be jacking the car up to do this you can also check for wear in the trunnions. Your looking for play between the steel threaded of the upright and the brass trunnion (as well as the  plastic cross bolt bushes while your at it) which could be excessive if grease has been used instead of oil. You might need some sort of lever to check for wobble and/or up - down movement in the trunnion....  

[Pete Lewis]

There is no easy way to remove grease , 

To be sure its hub and disc off, drop the upright   bush  bolt and unscrew the trunnion and clean it all out, 

You can then check for corrosion of the upright threads, and feel the state of trunnion fit 

Theres lots of ideas about alternatives  lube  but the design is its an oil bath so it needs to  be runny not goo or jelly or grease

Pete

 

[PeaTear]

Thanks for all the replies.  Looks like I'll be removing to assess.  Are there any must have essentials I should get in case the originals are useable, or recommendations of parts I should replace while I've got things apart

[dougbgt6]

As Pete says, you've got to strip it down, clean it out and check the threads particularly the vertical link at the top, this is where it will break. Any damage or deterioration here and it's good night Vienna. Replacement vertical links are surprisingly cheap and if you decide to do one, do them both.

Doug

[Waynebaby]

I've just changed the trunnions on my GT6 and found the job a lot simpler than I anticipated, but I think this is down to how readily the bolt holding the trunnion to the wishbone co-operates. As far as spare bits are concerned, along with the trunnions themselves I got a couple of new split pins for the hub nuts, two new trunnion bolts/nylock nuts (7/16" U.N.F. 2.5"), and two trunnion bush kits. If you think you're going to mangle the hub grease caps getting them off you might want to get a couple of these. I bought new trunnions because both of mine were leaking the oil from the swaged plate at the bottom. This leakage is a common fault and can be remedied by covering the bottom of the trunnion with an epoxy paste like J-B Weld, but this can only be done successfully if applied before the metal is contaminated with oil. I got all the bits from Canley classics, but any of the usual suppliers will stock these parts. I'd hold off buying new vertical links until you've examined them, because they're ~£100 a side. 

Wayne    

[RogerH]

11 hours ago, PeaTear said:

Thanks for all the replies.  Looks like I'll be removing to assess.  Are there any must have essentials I should get in case the originals are useable, or recommendations of parts I should replace while I've got things apart

To see how bad things are, have a look at the profile of the threads on the vertical link.

They should be a uniform shape - both sides of the 'V' the same.

When in service the bottom of the 'V' gets worn. So, the 'V' becomes a saw tooth shape.

Assemble the TRunnion dry tot he VL and see how much play/wobble there is. There should not be much at all.

I have a TR4A. This has a similar TRunnion to the Spit. I have always used grease for the TRunnion with no apparent excess  wear

As well as the JBWeld to seal the bottom of the TRunnion you can use soft solder.

 

Roger

PS - inspect the run-our of the thread on the TRunnion for corrosion pitting. There should be none. If it looks iffy consider a new VL - they do break.

[Pete Lewis]

good call on hub caps , tend to get distorted from previous tapping chisel and lever marks,

i fitted a rivnut in mine so removal ws remove short sealing bolt fit longer and it just drags it off easy 

Pete

 

[dougbgt6]

2 hours ago, Waynebaby said:

I'd hold off buying new vertical links until you've examined them, because they're ~£100 a side. 

Wayne    

Wow! They've gone up! Last time I checked they were under £40. Still if you need one, you need one, I'd still change them.

Doug

[dave.vitesse]

The grease v oil has bounced around for many years so it was good, a number of years ago, that the Courier received a letter from Dennis Barbet. Dennis had been involved in the  investigation of the wear on trunnions back in 1958/9 when he worked for Standard Triumph.

He found that the wear was reduced by switching to EP90 oil instead of using grease. This was on the earlier Mayflower/ Standard 8/ TR trunnions and before the introduction of the Herald. Hence, when the Herald was introduced Standard Triumph stated that EP90 oil should be used in the trunnions from day one.

Clever person Dennis, he invented the Stomberg carb.

Dave

[RogerH]

What does he know !!!

 

probably a great deal. The ST engineers were a clever lot indeed.

I may have to investigate a change to oil.

 

Roger

[Waynebaby]

The other spares you'll need for this job are two medium sized friends (or anything else equivalent to ~140kg) to put in the car to achieve the necessary static load before you torque up the trunnion and lower damper bolts. I understand that this is necessary since otherwise the bushes suffer because they'll be set in a different orientation to their normal operating position.  

[dougbgt6]

When I re-joined TSSC after several decades I was amused to find in my first new Courier an article by an Oxford Professor explaining the in's and outs of grease and oil! "Nothing changes!" I thought. One of the things he pointed out was that grease in olden times was water based and tended to dry out, turning to grit. Just what you don't want! His view was that modern non-water based grease was acceptable, but an oil bath was still better although needs frequent topping up. 

Doug

[PeaTear]

 

29 minutes ago, Waynebaby said:

The other spares you'll need for this job are two medium sized friends (or anything else equivalent to ~140kg) to put in the car to achieve the necessary static load before you torque up the trunnion and lower damper bolts. I understand that this is necessary since otherwise the bushes suffer because they'll be set in a different orientation to their normal operating position.  

Can this be achieved with wife in the car and my lying across the engine whilst torquing 😄

[Pete Lewis]

the trunnion bushes have a anti crush tube so when tight the bush rotates about the tube , wishbone bushes are best tightend in a running condition 

you also need rent acrowd for checking toe in  see the post about easy toe in

 

 

[PeaTear]

Thanks Pete, very useful info there

[mpbarrett]

looks like the vertical links are not available at the moment, most sites showing unavailable until end of March.
Was about to change my LH one on my herald, just stripped them both down to check them. I think I replaced the RH but the LH looks original with some pitting above the thread.

mike

[Pete Lewis]

 the pitting is where the cracks eminate from  and they   work  away across the  whole section till it shears

Luckily often when on low speed lock , 

Pete

 

 

[dave.vitesse]

Pete, It may well have been a kerb that caused this one! Ouch.

Dave

[dougbgt6]

Dave,

Yep, remember it well mine was just like that! It went on a right hand turn into a side road on the way to the girlfriend's house.  Her dad took me to the Triumph dealership and I bought the bits and fixed it there in the road. Then back to my house and stripped down the other side. Girlfriend ignored and not amused, although she later turned into the first wife. 

Doug

[dave.vitesse]

2 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Dave,

Yep, remember it well mine was just like that! It went on a right hand turn into a side road on the way to the girlfriend's house.  Her dad took me to the Triumph dealership and I bought the bits and fixed it there in the road. Then back to my house and stripped down the other side. Girlfriend ignored and not amused, although she later turned into the first wife. 

Doug

Doug, Did I get that right. You stripped the GT6 down?

Dave

[daverclasper]

On Club Triumph site, a few folk have appeared to have successfully lubed trunnions with largish plastic syringes/oil cans, after removing nipple.

Dave  

[dougbgt6]

Others pour it in from the top. Being able to use a syringe/oil makes me worry its going in too easily and therefore loose/worn. Or there's an easy path and not everything's getting a dose. I don't like either method, I like to pump it in through the nipple so I know its being forced up the threads to the top. 

Doug