The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - let there be light... please!

[Josef]

Not that it matters much, but FP906 won’t exist, the number ranges don’t overlap with the FS series. For further nerdery on minutiae, I found the cup style star washers you’d been posting about Colin are also fitted on the countersunk screws that hold the boot latch on the non estate Heralds. Great to see the progress as always!

[Colin Lindsay]

Excellent!! That's the sort of little jigsaw piece I love. The more part numbers or applications I can identify, the greater the chance of finding them. I just need to attend a good show / autojumble with stall holders who'll have them in a tray and I'll spot them from yards away. I've found that if you have a flat modern version they'll dish as screwed in, anyway, but that's not the same fun as tracking down the originals.

(Never knew that about keys either, so again another piece of info to salt away.)

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, Saturday evening again and not so much done in the garage as I'd like, reason being we have a major holiday in the village on 13th July and so all the free time is going on cleaning and gardening. Up to 80,000 people will descend on us and I'm durned if my house is going to look shabby. This also applies to the inside as being on the main route we'll have loads of guests for the free ringside parking and not only will they be inside at some point, they'll all want fed and watered, so a lot of DIY jobs that have been postponed for months are now being rushed through.

The estate has slowed a bit, I need a few parts and am waiting for a large enough order to justify carriage, and I also still need seatbelts but QuickfitSBS aren't being cooperative. I need two sets, Estate and convertible, but neither set is standard and it's easier to submit an order with the non-standard parts by e-mail, so I can explain at length, rather than attempt by phone. Every e-mail I send is returned undelivered, so I'll wait until next week before trying telephone.

I've been messing about with the rear hatch on the estate which will not fit centrally at all - the photo shows the gap at either side, driver's side is good but passenger side has a large gap.

                             

I can find no reason for this, it's not hitting anything and the gaps along the lower edge are perfectly straight. The problem must lie at the top, and I thought I had found it when I reckoned the hatch was fouling the interior light switch and therefore being held out, but sadly on inspection it wasn't. I've taken all sorts of measurements, side to side, but nothing stands out that would cause this distortion. I've loosened off the hinges and tried sliding and pressing the hatch in various positions but no joy.

I've also found that the bolts on the hatch supports are tearing the rubber seals, too, where they hit as the hatch opens and closes. I suspect it's down to overlarge nuts rather than slim half-nuts, and a thicker-than-standard rubber seal so a bit of shimming and fettling required. Even so, the position of these is the same at both sides so doesn't explain the hatch position. I also decided that one of the two rear hatch locking plates was incorrect - if you remember that the handles on the hatch close in opposite directions then the locking plates must be mirror images of each other. Mine were identical, as was my spare. I therefore decided to make one up from scratch. Easily done, using the old one as a template; sadly, too easily as when finished it was exactly the same, and of course the wrong side yet again. The catch at this side moves right to left, not left to right. Back to the drawing board.

     

As nothing more can be done at the rear end I moved to the engine bay, which needed most of the electronics connected. New coil and new SimonBBC distributor with electronic ignition should help things run nicely.

                                  

Sadly all I had were used ignition leads but these are good and relatively new, so will do unless proven faulty. I've gone for an alternator conversion so the control box is obsolete, but I've kept it anyway and just rearranged the internals. This is fine until I find a single brown cable with nowhere to go, so will have to go back to square one, work out where it came from or pulled off, and reattach. I had thought that area was all done and dusted, so will have to start over as I do hate melting looms and causing electrical fires. "Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfasts" as Michael Caine would say.

I also managed to get the convertible out on the road for a local show, the "Waringstown Cavalcade" which manages to stretch the definition of a Classic Car Show to include modern HGVs, every modern tractor in the country, and even garden lawnmowers. Modern ones, not antiques. Consequently what I would call 'classics' were in the minority, with 12 year olds driving much-too-large tractors up and down the street and revving the engines of Japanese plastic fantastics to emit huge clouds of black smoke. I parked up at a friend's house and watched from the roadside, and the Herald got very little attention at all. Too old and slow, probably, and nowhere near agricultural enough. Just like me.

                            

Still, some nice cars there including a brace of Standard 8s, a blue one which I missed photographing and a black one which was supposedly for sale. I'd still buy one for the right price.

                           

                           

As in previous years I stayed too late, well after dark, and as in previous years it also rained slightly. I also gave a niece a lift home. This meant using headlights, which point everywhere on full beam; using wipers, which are practically untested since fitting, using the hood, which is normally never used as it's full of holes, and having three in the car as opposed to two. In the event the Herald drove superbly, and amazingly quite fast too, and the wipers were better than expected. I sometimes forget how good these little cars are, but there were no rattles, no whines, the overdrive came in and out superbly, and the wind blowing through the holes in the hood kept things demisted nicely. Biggest problem was swerving around vintage tractors with no lights that loomed up ahead out of the darkness. Home safely and an appraisal this morning. I think I'm being too harsh on the hood, it's only got one tear but is slightly shorter on the passenger side than the driver's so won't clip onto the poppers, if I had a mind to fit any to improve the seal, and does seem a bit shrunken over the door glass. I do have a replacement, it's been in the box for years so may get round to fitting it if it's still serviceable.

                           

The other issue is the loss of engine oil. It was dipped before starting off and quite low, and we still have the evidence under the car that has appeared every day since I owned it. 

                                                                               

The large black circle is under the front pulley, and the line above is the rear of the sump - it seems to be dripping off right across the rear of the engine despite the sump being removed and sealed with a new gasket and engine sealant. I've no idea if the loss increases when driving, and even when parked for an hour or two it's not excessive on someone's drive, but I still cannot work out the source despite using every trick and tip I know, and sealing the rocker cover right round too. The gearbox doesn't drip, the diff only very slightly, but the engine has me bamboozled. It may be coming out over the winter for some remedial work so I'll tolerate it until then.

Next step bar the seatbelts is finishing the Estate brakes, which have been rebuilt but no fluid, pads or shoes. Plus adding proper wheels, which despite being repainted and having new tyres are currently propping up the red convertible. It won't need any for a while but it's handy being able to roll it about. Getting closer to the big startup!

 

[Peter Truman]

Colin these are currently on eBay  at 30 quid, there double handled compared to your single handles, were there different versions of the tailgate handles on the Estates

Item 296537236491

[Josef]

I used Safety Belt Services for my custom spec Spitfire belts Colin, sbsbedford@aol.com. They I think ended up slightly more expensive than QuickFit, but they also quoted inclusive of VAT unlike QuickFit (for a re web of the Herald belts) who gave me a price and only mentioned VAT hadn’t been included when the bill came…

Does feel like the estate is in the final stages now, even if all the little fiddly bits eat up soooo much time!

[Colin Lindsay]

Peter - estate handles are single sided; they close by turning each to the outer side, one left and one right so that the locking tab on the inside moves inwards from either either side and the locking plate therefore has to be handed, and only the driver's side has a lock. The mounting 'plinth' is also shorter than the boot handles (I think, as I found two different lengths and assume the estate is the shorter). I have three sets (must find out if they were used on any other vehicle, they do resemble Spitfire door handles) but the ones I'm using have the best chrome. 

Josef - I must have a look at Safety Belt Services; as usual I found Quickfit to be good so stuck with them for many years and never checked out the competition. The convertible belts are not only too modern and too confusing (every passenger that gets in fits their belt into the driver's holder) but are incorrectly fitted so not as safe as they could be. Even the former owner asked if I'd addressed them since they were only bolted through a single layer of bodywork on the B-post. I've reinforced that part but want to use the proper period convertible mountings and Quickfit have the preferred mounting bracket on their website. If only they weren't so difficult to deal with.

[Colin Lindsay]

Although it seems like I haven't really done that much in the garage, when I think about it I've actually completed a lot of small tasks that soon add up. The 1200 estate has taken the brunt of things as usual, in the hopes that a friend who is restoring two Heralds not far from me doesn't embarrass me even further by completing both of his before I finish one. Too many other things, from gardening to short trips abroad have eaten into the available time, but I do what I can and thankfully TV is so boring these days it drives me out to the garage more than usual.

The biggest achievement so far has been fitting the passenger side rear window. The seals are supplied as a length, to be cut as required, and most importantly shaped at the joint to look semi-professional and not a pig's ear of a job. I learned a lot from the driver's side, most especially about leaving compression room at the joint, where the rubber becomes squeezed during fitting and requires further trimming. I also tried to avoid tearing the headlining by fitting the top first, and then squeezing the lower edge into place; this does not work. It becomes a case of pressing the window, with seal fitted, into the aperture, then keeping pressure on with one hand whilst your fingertips pull the seal round the metal lip on the inside. Sore on the fingertips, but it doesn't tear the rubber, and I suppose another person pressing the glass inwards would have helped too, but the more you advance the easier it gets. Eventually it all goes in, and then you allow it to settle or stretch before adjusting again, and again, and then a bit more.

                             

As I mentioned earlier, the big problem is the joints, one at top and one at bottom of the b-post pillar. The b-post pillar is screwed into place at the top, into the roof with two screws, and rivetted as well as bolted at the bottom. This causes two problems: firstly the rivet sits proud on the inside, and cannot be ground down as it will just pull through, and at the top, the screws should be countersunk, which I didn't use. Therefore the rubber sits proud on the inside, and bends downwards at the top to fit around the screws. I also overcompensated for the rubber expansion this time, so while the driver's side was millimetre perfect and only required a smear of adhesive at the joint, the passenger side was less.... professional.

                                                            

                                                           

That's going to require a lot of sanding, filling, more sanding and rubbing, to get a dull even finish. It's isn't that noticeable but you can guarantee someone will point it out. However: all rear glass now in place. Once I sort out the headlining I can move to the windscreen.

I've also been negotiating for seatbelts; negotiating is the word as it's QuickfitSBS. I've dealt with them for years but their e-mail system seems quite slow - if not just unanswered - and it's much easier to send a photo of a belt connection or mounting and request similar than try to pick from their small and hard to make out gallery photos. In any case I e-mailed, they replied eventually, so I phoned and spoke to a great character called Stuart. In between sending unconnected e-mails and talking to other workmates about payment for metal etc he was able to take an order from me for estate and convertible seatbelts. The estate belts are black, plain black - no, I don't want pebble weave - but they have a single swivel connector at the rear wing / b-post, NOT the Y-connector of the saloon. This I explained again, and again, and again, but he still sent me a photo of the Y connector, so I had to reply with photos of the proper version.

                                                               

Thankfully it appears they still sell these even if he claims they're really for Aston Martins and the like, and the wider ones are only for inertia reel belts. I also declined chromed fittings, as this was an extra £52 per belt, so Cad-plated will do the estate fine thank you very much. For the convertible.... yes, as I thought. Mine has eyebolts at two locations, same as the Estate, NOT the common centre clip on top of the tunnel, nor does it have belts that go right back to the wheelarches, but computer says these are the only two types. I was able to describe the B-post bracket, but his versions are flat whilst mine are angled, and I'd prefer to have the webbing up off the bodywork.

                                 

I offered to supply some of my own chromed brackets if angled were not available but am still waiting on a reply to the e-mail I sent; I hope my suggestion didn't cause any offence. I'll no doubt have to phone back tomorrow. At least they had a decent range of colours, so have gone for 098 which will match my interior.

                                                                                       

The last job of the week was the front quarterlights on the project convertible, which have been removed by a PO and are in a sorry state. The lower threaded assembly has been severely ground away, so will have to be addressed, and in any case they're differing thicknesses so I suspect someone has been bodging before me. I experimented with sleeving for the upper section, but if I can find a really grotty version in my collection I'll maybe try to replicate those pivots from new, and source the springs and locking washers individually. I know you don't see them when fitted but it's the thrill of the chase I like.

             

It should be possible to machine them up, maybe from a suitable bolt, but I'll have to get one first in order to copy it. I think some appeared many years ago online and I may have copied the photographs, so will have a search.

Speaking of the Internet, it's a hazardous place; worse when you've had a few drinks and something is just coming up on eBay, but even so Facebook can be equally dangerous. I've mentioned many times that I would like a Standard 8 or 10, as a forerunner of the Herald and with hopefully similarly simple electrics and mechanicals, and the clincher for me would be a locally-registered car. Of course, what comes up about 40 miles away?

                  

As Scooby-doo would say: Ruff. It's supposedly in Shoal Green and a 'Gold Star' model which I think means it had uprated features, but I don't know the range well enough to be able to say exactly what, although it does have sliding windows and a bootlid, which other 8s and even some 10s didn't. According to the vendor it's an 'easy restoration' - he states it does need sills but the floors and 'chassis' as he puts it are fine. They don't actually have a chassis. From what I can see, the front panel is perforated, the rear along the entire lower edge is very frilly, the bootlid has holes, the front grille may be mangled beyond saving (and how rare are bootlid and grille to replace???) and the bumpers are grotty. There are no interior shots. I've managed to discover that sills are available, and there are some repair sections, but not many. He's asking way too much at £1200 but might lower - possible, but not guaranteed given the Ulster mentality of 'if it's old it's worth money'. I may go view it, but possibly only to learn what they're like in order to help my half-hearted search. I showed it to a friend who reckons it's not that bad, he can make the necessary body repairs, and besides, it's time I learned to do that myself, and how to weld, so he'll take me to the supplier he uses and see what I need for my cars.

I've an unexpected royalty cheque in the post winging it's way to me... maybe time to look for a good MIG welder? It might stop me looking for project cars.

[Pete Lewis]

Ive said before  i used to service our bank manager(or sub manager) had  a 10   when we got it running with a full set of valves and seats it so much quicker he crashed it a bit .

the  car was  in good condition when we lifted the jack through the hole in the floor by the B post  was the floor cam up   the car did not   Oops     its gone and died on the drive 

that was back in the early 70s 

Pete

[rlubikey]

21 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

It's supposedly in Shoal Green and a 'Gold Star' model which I think means it had uprated features, but I don't know the range well enough to be able to say exactly what, although it does have sliding windows and a bootlid, which other 8s and even some 10s didn't. According to the vendor it's an 'easy restoration' - he states it does need sills but the floors and 'chassis' as he puts it are fine. They don't actually have a chassis.

Colin, I think I'm right in saying the Gold Star models came with the first high compression versions of the "Small Car" engine (should have an HE suffix) painted gold to highlight the difference when the bonnet was opened. I wasn't aware of interior extras, but I'm no expert.

There's a sub-chassis for the engine. Perhaps that's what he is referring to.

There is a surprising variety of spares available from the Standard club. Also check out 8n10 Spares. Assessing the spares situation might give you the confidence to go ahead, or scare you off buying a hopeless case!

Cheers, Richard

Edited July 29 by rlubikey

[Colin Lindsay]

Back in the garage after a few short breaks and a lot of home DIY; after all 'Er Indoors is off school for the summer so I have to pretend I actually do things every day. The grass is cut, hedges trimmed, gutters cleaned out and she's been taken here there and everywhere as she's apparently 'on holiday' and so wants to go places. It's a bit distracting!

I spent an excellent week in Prague, an amazing city of amazing variety. Spotted the modern equivalent of an amphicar (ok so it's a boat but rather them then me!) plus I could have taken a Classic Car tour of the city, but the majority of them were modern replicas. This red Skoda was nice, though.

                                                                                                    

                             

As usual, no Triumphs. Not even a trace of any, even in the many antique and curio shops.Still, home safely and back to the grind.

I mentioned before that I was going to work on the quarterlight pivots and see what could be done for an alternative to this long obsolete part. I decided the best bet was to cut and sleeve a suitable bolt, then see about the angled bracket on the top. These bolts are a perfect match, just cut the head off at the proper angle:

  

Regrettably only after I'd done that I realised it was a stainless water pump housing bolt, so it has left me one short for my next engine rebuild. I reckon that 'sleeve' can be replaced very easily, just find some suitable tubing, heat to expand and slide it over and once it cools it will hold in place nicely. The nut is simple, as is the tab washer, but the spring may be more complicated. Similar types are available, so I'll nip across to the In-Laws later in the week and see what they have lying about the factory, and if they have nothing suitable I'll get their opinion as to what to order online - those little stubby ones look appealing.

                                             

In a similar vein, someone posted about a sticking solenoid recently so that was all the impetus I needed to strip and rebuild another one. These are the original red-button Lucas varieties, I like the red button for engine bay work, so took this one apart. It was heavily corroded and seized solid.

         

 

Once the four rivets are drilled out - beware of damage to the bakelite casing - the main workings can be carefully withdrawn through the two cup-shaped rubber seals (not available so don't damage them!) and cleaned once you've made a note of the order they go back in. All copper so a good polish works very well. That large circular plate is the earth and the very thin wire on top of the coil needs soldered to it on reassembly; there is a second wire that pokes through a hole in the casing and is soldered to the spade terminal. The solder requires melted for removal and obviously replaced on reassembly. Again on reassembly make sure any rivets do not break the corners off the case; use soft metal versions - even so I broke one corner off during the rebuild. You can tell once it's reassembled that it's working, as the red button now depresses again.

                                                                              

None of this of course helps the Heralds in any direct way, so I replaced the windscreen on the Estate. I'm getting used to doing it by myself, just put the seal round the glass and set it in place with the inner lip over the metal flange. I then just work my way round pulling the lip over by fingertip pressure, it hurts but doesn't tear! The more of the rubber lip that comes out round the flange, the more the screen is pulled inwards, and you can help by periodically going outside and pressing it inwards. Once completely fitted, go round the edges and press firmly inwards. I l leave it to settle for a time, then work round the slot with a blunt screwdriver to space out the rubber before going for the chrome locking strip, which goes in with thumb pressure but hurts the thumbs! 

                      

One handy tip for this is to lubricate with Waxoyl, which allows it to slip but doesn't damage the paintwork. The corners as always are the awkward bits but take care and above all allow it to settle in - keep pulling the screen rubber outwards to the edges, and again especially at the corners, to stretch the trim into place. Once the two ends meet - and it always seems there's not going to be enough until you get there - allow to settle again for a few days before trimming the ends. You don't want too large a gap, and don't forget the join cover which is easier to fit before the two ends are pressed into place.

                     

This now allows me to fit wipers and the interior sunvisors, which have not seen the light of day nor a car either for many years, so had gone very grey with dust. I found that Astonish trim cleaner works very well if worked in with a scrubbing brush. This one has cleaned up very well; now for the other side.

                    

Next job will be refitting those plus the rear-view mirror - I actually have three or four different types including at least one in black, but I think grey will match the outer plastic covers more closely. The biggest benefit will be that they'll cover the creases in the headlining, which is a terrible job but should be okay if hidden. I now need seatbelts, connect the front light wiring up behind the bonnet, bleed and finish the brakes, adjust the front wheel bearings and handbrake... and then maybe start the engine. That'll be scary.

I still haven't gone to view the Standard 8 yet; maybe in a fortnight when the house is quiet again. I'm still in two minds about it; not a bad way to be when parting with cash.       

Edited August 17 by Colin Lindsay

[Colin Lindsay]

                                                                               

Still going forward in leaps and bounds these days; I've been across to the In-Laws for details of the required spring for the quarterlights. If you've ever wondered at the assembly: the spring sets the tension to keep the quarterlights open, so they don't simply roll and flap about, and should therefore be replaced as close to like-for-like as possible, as you don't want the movement too stiff or too loose. Probably adjusting the nut will allow for some degree of variation. The measurements we obtained were 6 coil, 3mm metal, 25mm length (although this may have compressed over time) 14mm outside diameter and 7mm interior. I've been on the Net and ordered a selection up to 30mm but as with anything bought sight unseen, I won't know how close they are until they arrive, but at least then I can adjust the size ordered accordingly. All else should be simply a case of cutting and welding so I'm looking forward to getting some practically brand new quarterlight assemblies at the end of the work. I must admit to having been caught out by ordering the seals for the glass from a supplier only to find they're merely strips of rubber, not the moulded U-shape of the originals, so could have done that myself with some old inner tube rubber. You live and learn!

I also got round to finishing the wiring under the bonnet, for the front lights and indicators. Simple and straightforward enough, the Herald is so accessible once I remember the original routing which led to one disassembly. Interesting to note three earth leads; I thought there should be four, which seems to point towards one sidelamp unit having two cables, green and red, and the other three with the extra earth. I do prefer earth to a loom rather than just hoping for a contact to the metal, so may add that one later if it doesn't work as is. Too many threads on here about poor earths to ignore all that advice.

                                   

The big fly in the ointment are the door gaps caused by the tub sag. I just don't feel happy about a Herald where the doors sit out so far. It wasn't helped by new door seals, even the flap type, which hold the doors out a tad much, but even with those removed and the door catches now working (had to replace one which seemed too badly work to catch) the doors still sit very proud at the bottom. The solution is to draw the sides in, which I have done before and which I thought had cured the problem, but it seems to have been a short-term solution. Back then, before the seats, glass and trim were fitted, I just wedged large pieces of sturdy wood into the inside of the wings and pulled in a strap looped round them, to much groaning and creaking. That was just me. The bodywork moved slightly, but it doesn't seem to have been permanent. Now, with the interior and glass fitted, there isn't the same option for attachment points, until I had the bright idea of using the seatbelt mounting points in the inside wings. These are reinforced behind the wing top, so little danger of pulling the threaded section out, although it is still a possibility. All I had to do was replace the single chrome bolt - Estates use one bolt per mounting, whilst saloons use two smaller bolts and their bracket does not swivel - with an eyebolt from the centre tunnel, and then find a heavy ratchet strap with suitably-sized hooks.

                                   

It works!! Gradual drawing-in of the strap still results in creaking and groaning, but nothing pulls away or breaks off. If you look at the photos below you can see the before-and-after shots of each side as the wings are drawn in and the doors straighten up:

                 

The passenger side above has the worst profile, but sits in beautifully under pressure. The driver's side is less pronounced, but still goes back in again:

                  

Of course this is great until you relax the pressure whereupon the two sides fly back out again with an amazing bang. This means the sides must be pulled in far in excess of the required amount, in hopes that this will bend or stress something somewhere and so allow them to open again but not just as widely as before. This is quite scary:

                 

Sadly, so far, this hasn't worked. The sides spring out again as before with little or no change in position or gaps. What I'm looking at now is a semi-permanent solution: if the ratchet strap holds the sides in, but obviously can't be left in place all the time, perhaps a threaded adjustable rod screwed across the car from side to side may suffice? With suitable brackets this can be fitted to allow normal fitment and operation of the seatbelts, but can be tightened in the same manner as the bonnet adjustment rods to pull the sides in as required... thinking out loud as usual but the only way this will adversely affect the car at all is in use of the rear seat, as there'll be a solid bar running all the way across which passengers can't get around. Of course I'll rarely if ever have rear seat passengers... so I'll have to experiment along this line and see what develops. Back to the In-Laws for suitable metal, fabrication and machining...

But: after all this, the Estate is closer to the road than it ever has been. It even looks like a complete car now that the windscreen is in and the wipers fitted. I'm aiming for a first run out early next Spring, for the 2025 show season, so that leaves plenty of time for MOT and Italian tune-ups. We're getting there!

                                                                                     

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

Colin  its a while back and memory  is foggy but i reckon we pulled like 1.5" to springing back to 1/2" 

certainly lots of groan and creaking but it worked

keep an eye on the rear deck which can start  to buckle a bit 

strong tea and a will to succeed rules apply 

Pete

[Paul H]

If you work on one side at a time this could well work. I used the lower seat belt anchor see pic . There is no “spring” and the pull is more direct and worked well for me . The noise when operating the winch was frightening . 

 

 

Paul 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

No rear deck to buckle in the estate, Pete, although the roof may crumple upwards eventually!

Never thought of the lower point, Paul; drawing each side in allows a lot of movement, that method would certainly cut that down. I've a Club Run today so will try your method later. Much obliged for the tip!

[Eric Smith]

Colin - So you could not stop the urge and you had a look at pictures of Standard 8 on the internet, are you mad, these photographs could cause a hole in your bank balance and a trip to the opticians.

Being serious - what you looked at is a 1958 Standard 8. According to the app I have on the iPod, the car should have an 803cc petrol engine. It is Green in colour and was last due road tax in 1975 and importantly it received a new V5 this year of 2024.

I don’t know any more than you about Gold Star engines but what I do know I will pass on - as far as I know, the Standard 8 was designed to be very cheap, with the Standard 10 being more expensive and having a bigger engine and a few more frills and refinements. The first of the Standard 8 cars had sliding windows and no boot lid - the boot being accessed by a rear fold down rear seat and one central brake light - by 1955 that had changed to hand cranked up and down windows, I believe they had a few extra options (I don’t know what they were) but they kept the single central brake light and there was still no boot lid. 

By 1958 they had obviously decided to keep most of the Standard 8 and 10 body panel pressings the same, so the gave the car a boot lid and I would not be surprised if they added something else to pull in the buyers?

Inside the engine bay of the 8 there are plates giving commission and body numbers, according to the number suffix in mine, the car is a delux - what that means in terms of improvements is hard to say as I don’t know.

To be honest I have never really researched the development of the Standard 8 and 10 via the Pennant to the Herald Family, it would probably be a job for a winters day?

Eric
 

 

[Paul H]

51 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

No rear deck to buckle in the estate, Pete, although the roof may crumple upwards eventually!

Never thought of the lower point, Paul; drawing each side in allows a lot of movement, that method would certainly cut that down. I've a Club Run today so will try your method later. Much obliged for the tip!

Make a strap as I’ve done which links the top linkage of the seat belt and the door catch ( remove the door catch and replace with the linkage) . Using the strap means when connected it will find the most direct route so the pull is direct . Hope this makes sense . I used an old seatbelt folded 4 times which is probably overkill 

Paul 

[Paul H]

21 hours ago, Paul H said:

Make a strap as I’ve done which links the top linkage of the seat belt and the door catch ( remove the door catch and replace with the linkage) . Using the strap means when connected it will find the most direct route so the pull is direct . Hope this makes sense . I used an old seatbelt folded 4 times which is probably overkill 

Paul 

I also prefer to use a winch as there’s no stretch. 
Paul 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 24/08/2024 at 09:36, Eric Smith said:

Colin - So you could not stop the urge and you had a look at pictures of Standard 8 on the internet, are you mad, these photographs could cause a hole in your bank balance and a trip to the opticians.

I was going to message you about this one, just to pick your brains, so you've beaten me to it.

I was on a TSSC Run yesterday, we started at a Garden Centre - guess what's on display?

The blurring is due to moisture on the camera lens, not any misty-eyed fondness of mine. This one is complete, very tatty, not for sale, but looks like exactly the same model as the one I was planning to go see:

Now of course 'Er Indoors immediately vetoed the idea... "You have enough cars".... but I'm still tempted and two of the Club members had also been debating it, but one has no room and the other has no time. I'm debating viewing it with a friend and maybe salting it away for a future project, there's no immediate money in it as the seller is asking quite a high price which is typical of local sellers. It will need sills, maybe a bootlid, certainly rechromed bumpers but there are only two photos so hard to tell condition until I view. The vendor has fitted four new tyres - WHY???? - surely he can't be claiming that it's MOT-exempt and on the road? In any case, the advice of the Club members who know these things and were there yesterday was to replace the front suspension with Herald uprights, vertical links and disc brakes, and they also claim that engines up to 1500cc will fit more or less straightaway - not that I'd do that sort of thing... 

[Eric Smith]

Hi Colin 

I was going to send you an email about this one, but as I am here I will put some things down what came to my aged brain cells?

According to my app, the car had a new V5 issued in June of this year, add in the new tyres and I think you might be looking at someone trying to inflate the price of a barn find or a barn find project which never got far.

There was an 8 or 10 in similar condition (I will see if I can find it again and let you know) which had a price tag of £1000 in the North of England, so the green one could be seen as a bit pricey but as NI is only a little plot of land separated from the rest of the UK by the sea, the sellers inflated price might be about right? You and your mates going in as a group could see if the price is negligible?

A thought though, the extra £500 would not be too much extra to pay as it’s local to you, (I recently paid £80 to get my car transported 40 miles) so if you went to see the car in England you would have to factor in for two Ferry crossings per person and the price of the car and trailer, may be an overnight stop and all your transportation costs - the £500 saving would get swallowed up getting the car back to your house!

Another thought - NI is not the most arid places on earth, the car looks very dry to me, so it’s sat somewhere nice since 1974, so the rust issue does not look too bad - on my car the previous owner had done a bit of work, he had welded up the bottoms of the doors so obviously they go, the little bulges below the light seem happy to rust, the inside of the roof gets rusty and obviously the floor pan but on mine both cleaned up without any repairs - the rest of the car was good.

One thing which makes me think the car has moved between hands to do work is the engine. The car was due new tax in 1975 - you are the expert here - 1975, dry stored, new tyres, new V5 but 1500cc engine, looks like someone else had it and was starting to hotrod the car.

Brakes, I was told to avoid the Herald disc conversion because of the additional points, I was advised to fit 8” Herald front drums and keep the rear 7”. The the disc conversion kit is £300+ if you buy it from a supplier - obviously you may have most of the bits in your stash, so the costs come down, but for me, it was a big extra cost and extra points.

After asking the forum about what to tell the DVLA and Insurance companies, I checked my car and I am ok, but on the green car the Engine, gearbox and potential differential/axle change would push up the points because they are modifications, they are things to think about.

Better go the boss is issuing orders  - talk soon.

Eric
 

 

[rlubikey]

What Eric said!

Plus, if you do decide on discs (maybe you have all the components so £300 of bits already in your spares drawer) please DON'T swap the vertical links for Herald/Spitfire ones as the geometry is different. Source some disc conversion brackets and job's a good'un.

Cheers, Richard

[Eric Smith]

Hi Colin - Sod’s Law said I could not find the car I saw yesterday at £1000 but I did some research to see what I could find for you (purely for fun) - currently in the UK the cheapest Standard 8 or 10 I could find stands at £1400 and it looks rough, the next is £2850, then another three at £3495, £3795, £4000 and the last one is a whopping £7495 which looks a cracking car but it should for the money - however if Mrs L and the border guards would let you cross over the border and on into County Meath there is a nice looking car for 3500€ - better still there is a nice one for 2750€ in County Monaghan - both look good in the photographs.

So the conclusion of all of this is your £1500 project car in NI is a bit of a steal, far better than the one in the English Midlands at £1400, the only trouble with the NI green car are the modifications.

The two cars in the ROI look nice but would probably only need some Lindsayfication and import duty - finally if Mrs L let you have access to the credit card or she made you sell a kidney or two the one at £7495 is the one to go for.

Eric

 

[Colin Lindsay]

SAVED BY THE BELL - the Standard has sold. Must keep an eye out for it at shows, hopefully it won't be hotrodded, but that's set me firmly back in today's garage with at least one other Herald to rebuild, so I can stop daydreaming and do something tangible with what is actually in front of me. 

Thanks for your help and advice Eric and Richard, I think to be honest I was really only half-hearted about it hence never went to view. The reality is that cars on the mainland are so much cheaper but the ferry is astronomical, (highest ferry fare of any route in the UK) so a local car does save a lot of expense and of course can be viewed in the flesh, but we're more of a limited market here with a huge number of enthusiasts and not so many local cars appearing for sale, and those that do command a high price - not because of their real value, but because the typical average Ulsterman won't settle for anything less than the high price he thinks its' worth. Both Car SOS and Henry Cole have found that out to their cost and frustration!

I may yet buy one, but only for a slight detour from Heralds, and it will have to be a local car - I like the Northern Ireland history value as well as the actual vehicle.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, Saturday again, believe it or not sweltering hot so too hot to cut grass and so I've taken a break from the garage for a time. I'm on a roll - no I don't mean I'm eating - but I've had some great luck recently and so am like a dog with two proverbials in that things are going right in all directions. You get days like that and I'm happy to indulge.

First thing - not slightly Herald related other than being the cause of the problem in the first place - I dropped a screwdriver on the screen of my mobile. I was taking headlights out, the phone was on the floor, the screwdriver dropped. Point-first, as luck would have it. The screen shattered quite spectacularly. There were a few cracks before, but this one is fatal. Back into the house whereupon Darling Daughter tells me it's only the screen protector, and she has a new one on the doorstep within 24 hours. Off comes the old one and phone screen is revealed as immaculate, with all the old damage being the protector only. It's like getting a new phone!! Happy days!

Second thing - I get a late-night message from a friend yesterday - "Have serious rot in screen pillars, car is off for spraying on Monday 2nd - do you by any chance have drain channels?" Amazingly... yes I do. Two of, new old stock from many years back, and I never thought I'd ever see them used in anger. Surface rust removed and primer applied this morning. What are the chances of having those exact parts out of all the possible necessaries? I'm chuffed to be of service. The legend that is the Lindsay spare parts pile grows yet again.

                                                                              

Third thing: definitely Herald-related. I've no longer got any excuse for not putting a battery in the Estate. All is rewired, all is practically new (the bits that aren't did let me down - read on!) - and I do have a fuse box fitted. What can go wrong?

Battery fitted.... it's a huge 065 that fills the battery tray with terminals to the rear. I've rebuilt both leads with quick-release terminals just in case. Red on - nothing. No fires, no sparks, no smoke. Earth on - again, no smoke, no fires, no smell of burning... nothing. Now: the moment of truth. Key in ignition, and turn. Nothing. No smoke, no fires, no burning, but no power either. Now for the step-by-step diagnostic.

Power is getting to the starter solenoid, and to the control box, but not to the ignition. It's also not getting to the fuse box, either. Check each component in turn, and thereby to the control box.

This is my first blonde moment of the week, but traceable back to 2003 or thereabouts. Back then I rebuilt the Estate (for the second time, I think?) and converted it to alternator. NOW as we all know, you take the guts out of the control box and connect the three right-hand terminals together. I bent them all together, twisted them round a bit, and added some solder for a good solid dog's dinner of a job. Looks terrible, but who is going to see? Well, 20-odd years later, I did - or rather I LOOKED for the first time. The terminals are all connected, alright, but from the rear it should be the three LEFT-SIDE terminals. Right from the front, left from the rear. OOPS. I've connected three incorrect terminals together. Bin that one, and do it properly - and so much neater, too. I'm neater at things now than I was then. 

                                                             

Control box now reconnected, turn the key, and BINGO - power!! Ignition and oil lights. Heater works, wipers work, indicators work, horn works.

                                                                                     

That's the first time since 2003. Looking great, and hopefully they'll also go out as required.

Now for the lights. One headlamp, one tail lamp, no numberplate lamp. Brake lights work, though, so it's not the earth. This is an Autosparks loom that was fitted new, with a long tail extension that's supposed to go up over the roof and back down again, unlike the original that had a separate loom for the crossover from passenger side to driver's side. There are four red cables - one of which is immensely long so probably numberplate illumination, and the others are tail lights. Except: none of them work. There is no power to any of them bar one, and believe me I tried every permutation of cable and switches, ignition on or ignition off. In the end I used the simplest solution: both tail lights and numberplate illumination to the one that did work. We have lights!!

                                                  

Not so at the front, though. One headlamp blew on initial contact, just greyed out inside, and the replacement is barely even a candle. The other is adequate, being a 700-unit Lucas original, but driver's side has nothing but a dim glow. I have a set of replacements - and by the way I was done / diddled / frauded. My eBay set of Philips Brighteyes - the 150mph headlamp - has turned out to be a set of two standard globes - and used into the bargain. I suspect the original uprated units were fitted to someone's car and the old ones put into this box until they were found years later and so sold as originals. They work, but are certainly no upgrade, and in any case still the barest glimmer on one side. Same thing with a set of Wipac Quadoptics, which I don't like as they look too modern. If it's not the bulb, it's the wiring, and this is the best example of undamaged but old wiring I've seen in years. Looks clean, undamaged and shiny, but it must be seriously resisting the current. I bought two replacement looms from James Paddock and that cured the problem: pure bright light from driver's side, so bin the old loom before I decide to use it again once I've forgotten the problem. Sadly, though: connect up both lights, and the problem is back: gleaming from passenger side, but the driver's side merely a candle. Works with one connected, but not two. Connect both and this side goes dim again. I'd no idea of what the problem was. It had to be a connection problem, that's the only weak spot if the looms were all new. Again, and again, I pulled out the bullet connectors and reconnected them, but the problem remained.

                  

Finally, I decided it had to be an earthing issue. What else can it be, either an earth or a short circuit? This time I removed the bullet connector from the loom, not just pulling the new headlamp looms off it but pulling it right off the main loom, and replaced it with a new one. Cured!! The bullet connector must have oxidised, or corroded, or else just fallen apart, but the new one solved the problem completely. Must remember to retrieve the old headlamp loom from the bin now as it's blameless and probably good for years to come. Incidentally one of the looms had a pilot light attached, but it was the one that worked. I've been walking around the garage ever since with the roof lights off and the Estate lights on, just for the fun of it. Childish maybe, but gives me great pleasure as a job completed.

Next logical step was starting the engine. I put some fuel in, just in case - the gauge works, too - and removed the electrics including the sparkplugs before trying the key. Success here too, the engine spins, so no bangs or rattles, but no smell of fuel either. I suspect the fuel pump isn't. Pumping, that is. A replacement is on the bench, and a carb rebuild will probably help too - it was rebuilt before, but has been dry for years. After that, we'll see if we can get any response, with with one eye fixed firmly on the oil pressure.

Here's an interesting phenomenon: the original driver's side lamp blew on first turn-on, just went grey. I removed it and put it on the floor... where it continued to glow faintly for some time. It's stopped now... but why?

                                

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

thats an illuminating story      

Pete

[Josef]

I guess the glow was the remains of the filament burning up. There’s not much else in there, no capacitor to hold charge or anything so I can’t think what else it would be. 
Exciting progress though, getting very close!