fungus Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Anybody know if the body mounting bolts on the early Heralds, I think where are call speed bolts, are avalible new? sort of a big screw with a bolt type head. there looks like there were a couple of sizes used, but the only ones I have found in stores are no where near as big. just in case! I don't suppose anyone would know how to work out the size of them, (never could get the hang of bolt and nut thread sizes!) so I can search the tinternet. below is where they are used. thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qu1ckn1ck Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Are they what I know as "Coach Bolts" ? https://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nails-fixings/coach-bolts-screws/cat840088 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 im pretty sure the only acme threaded bolts were used with spire clips in area 4 where the two sheet panels overlap and screw into the cross member all others are std unf bolts and cage plates etc are you dreaming about this type of fixing certainly never used on main body mounts https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/acme-screws-size-10x3-4.html?fee=2&fep=1575&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google-ps&gclid=Cj0KCQiAno_uBRC1ARIsAB496IWQNVA2dW6j6RFdOSV4iZNqldvDGvLd3UOvAImRltPVU01s64ok8mUaAmHBEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFL Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 The ones along the joint of the front and rear bulkheads (No. 4's) are like the ones shown by Pete on later cars, they screw into Spire type nuts in the chassis, not sure about the early 948's though but more than likely the same? They used a self tapping type thread with a Bolt head to suit either a 7/16" or 3/8" Size spanner or socket If I remember correctly. The washers were quite large at least an inch diameter, maybe slightly bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Qu1ckn1ck said: Are they what I know as "Coach Bolts" ? https://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nails-fixings/coach-bolts-screws/cat840088 looked at them. the thread don't go far enough up or the shoeter ones are to small in diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: im pretty sure the only acme threaded bolts were used with spire clips in area 4 where the two sheet panels overlap and screw into the cross member all others are std unf bolts and cage plates etc are you dreaming about this type of fixing certainly never used on main body mounts https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/acme-screws-size-10x3-4.html?fee=2&fep=1575&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google-ps&gclid=Cj0KCQiAno_uBRC1ARIsAB496IWQNVA2dW6j6RFdOSV4iZNqldvDGvLd3UOvAImRltPVU01s64ok8mUaAmHBEALw_wcB my coupe (in the picture) is an very early car all the back body fittings are that type of fitting in to a plate fixed to the chassis two under the back seat two in the boot by the axle tunnel and four at the back of the boot, two under the fuel tank side and two on the opposit side fixed to the rear outriggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 are you of the feeling they are original and not been fitted by a previous repair , it does not seem an engineering design to use that type of fixing to secure a body to the chassis , in an crash they would all just pull through ....not a good idea needs a positive fixing not a big tapper type screw this doesnt sound suitable pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 The two halves of the body were indeed screwed together by a large self-tapper and a big washer, through both sides of the body and into the centre outriggers. Measurements as follows: 3/8 inch head and 1.5 inch long. The washers are about 1 and 5/8 across. There are three each side on the 948, and four on each side on later cars, three on the flat of the centre outrigger and one angled into the edge of the tub. There's nothing behind them, no spire clips or other fixings. Part number is YT3708, listed as NLA but readily substituted for the same dimensions in metric. The other chassis mountings are listed as setscrews but are what I would call bolts that screw into captive nuts. Part number BT7822, again listed as NLA, but probably just a UNF thread in the correct size ( probably 7/16?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Pete I agree re the structural limitations of the ACME threaded spire nutted screws! Having said that I fitted an early convertible rear tub (Aus CKD kit) to the rear of my saloon, and the front seat mountings were ACME style screws with welded spire speedie nuts at the front and clip in spire speedie nuts in the rear floor plinths. needless to say I replaced them with bolts, nuts and heavy washers. Colin I have some spare coach/Speede or ACME style screws esp the front rear tub joint your welcome to. I don't think there a true ACME which having a coarse thread has a flat apex/top and root of the thread, the screws I have and used at the rear side valences look like ACME screws, photo supplied if reqd. regards Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 13 hours ago, Peter Truman said: Colin I have some spare coach/Speede or ACME style screws esp the front rear tub joint your welcome to. I don't think there a true ACME which having a coarse thread has a flat apex/top and root of the thread, the screws I have and used at the rear side valences look like ACME screws, photo supplied if reqd. regards Peter T Unless the OP requires them, Peter; I have lots of those large self-tappers that came off Heralds over the years and all the other mountings on mine are either the long bolts into mounting plates or else bolts screwing straight into captive nuts, as on the front outriggers or the boot extensions. Nothing on my 1200s bar the centre outriggers where the two halves overlap uses self-tappers. (other than the sills of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Definitely original, I have had the car since 1980 and it was basically scrap then. The back seat area had one big thick peace of sheet metal welded over the mostly none excitant original as did the front foot wells. The boot floor was ply screwed to the rust. The best bit on the car was the chassis as years of dripping oil had completely covered it in thick oily goo. Believe it or not it had an MOT and I drove it back home from Ashford in Kent with its “slipping clutch “the reason the lady was selling it. This is a photo from back in 1982 after the chassis was shot-blasted and coated, did not think to photograph it this time when the body was off. All the central rails where in excellent condition as I said coated in oil and dirt. You can just see the fixings. The speed nut things in side are fairly chunky. and the parts catalogue does list them as screws .... It’s all rather confusing really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 They're just bolts into captive nuts in the chassis. Bound to be UNF thread and I'd still guess they're around 7/16 or 1/2. The later Heralds had their fair share of them too, four in the boot and two on top of the diff mounting with another two on the front outriggers. On this 948 - terminally rusty, unfortunately - you can see the bright threads where they were unscrewed for the first time since leaving the factory, left and right of the front diff mounting, and one even broke off in the raised mounting to the right above the rear shock on the driver's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 YT3708 is a acme no 14 bolt BT7822 is a 5/16"unf thread cutting bolt 1 3/8" long often used on taped holes /nuts that have been overpainted/ or tank dipped so the threads are clogged up. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 That's good to know, and quite interesting! I had a quick search online but nothing came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 just going through some old update sheets for Triumph Herald 948cc spare parts number 508073 3rd edition Accumulative amendment No 5 dated Dec. 1962 Change BT 7822 to read HU0811 And I see that the part number they use in the later herald 13/60 part catalogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 its in the triumph hardware catalogue, first time ive ever found what im looking for books out in the conservatory , closed for the night, but at least it shows as 5/16 unf not all acme and 13/60 is certainly as all other small chassis ...bolts and cage nuts to use acme all round has the ring of Oops sheared off and drilled out pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 9, 2019 Report Share Posted November 9, 2019 13 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: to use acme all round has the ring of Oops sheared off and drilled out pete That funnily enough was my first thought - the originals are unfit for purpose so if replacing, use a bigger bolt and screw it in tight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted November 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Some more photos, difficult to get a good shot but you can see the speednut plate under the rear mounts and just about under the mounting just behind the diff. however I coud not get a good pic of the main chassis rail holes but that has the same speednut plate fixed inside the main chassis rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 well that may be the case being early build but would you be happy with them i would expect there's a good reason why they were superceeded to proper bolts if youre happy ... use them . Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 fungus what a great job of protecting the chassis you've done both inside and out, congratulations Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 15/11/2019 at 22:24, Peter Truman said: fungus what a great job of protecting the chassis you've done both inside and out, congratulations Peter T Been at it for a long time. I get a bit done then something else comes up so the coupe gets put to the back of the cue as had happened since your post . Can't believe it has been 3 year's. COVID gave many people time to get their cars done. I had less time then when I was working 😂 Also I have had to do something's again because it's been such a long time since that job was done. New Rubber parts being a case in point. Many don't last even a year. 🤔 I have always said one day it will be done......... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, fungus said: Also I have had to do something's again because it's been such a long time since that job was done. New Rubber parts being a case in point. Many don't last even a year. 🤔 Welcome back! I know what you mean about redoing things; I 'restored' the estate in the mid 1990s, shelved it, restarted in 2003, shelved it, and now restarted again and hopefully properly with the benefit of a few more years' experience. I had to replace engine and gearbox mountings, but i'm hoping that the screen rubbers and door seals, bought new, have lasted without being fitted. How did the chassis bolts / screws end up? What did you opt for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 On the 13/60, where the tub halves join, I used Galvanised Coach Bolts, With big "penny" Washers under the "stiff" nuts. All the other Chassis/tub joins are 7/16 UNF, bolted right through and have short sections of "crush" tube between the Chassis frame. Again with Stiff nuts and penny washers. IF they ever have to come out again, It would be an Angle grinder job, as with when I parted the originals. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungus Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 11 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: How did the chassis bolts / screws end up? What did you opt for? Drilled them out and fitted some chunky rivnuts I had from a friend that work on helicopters. Good and strong now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted August 11, 2022 Report Share Posted August 11, 2022 8 hours ago, fungus said: friend that work on helicopters Hmmmmmmm?. Wonder where that was?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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