Handbrake adjustment on Vitesse

[daverclasper]

Hi. Should the rear cable be tighter in the with car up and suspension in droop position? please. Mine seems the opposite.

Cheers, Dave 

[Casper]

I don't know the answer but it is different on Mk 2.  Even more complicated if a 'wrong'' body swap has occurred.

C.

[Pete Lewis]

its best to set the cable length with the suspn/axle lifted  closer to running height  

or you will get errors in its operating length 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

No, but near that point.

In other words leave the cable slack to start with, then adjust up the brake shoes to the correct setting. Then take the slackness out of the cable to the point the drums start to bind. Then back it off until the drums are free again.

A jack under each upright to push the axle up can help getting it right.

Dave

 

[daverclasper]

Thanks Guys. I miss spelt above. I meant to say, does the rear cable sit tighter in droop position?.

Ages ago, I set the handbrake lever to WM spec and also the angled thing as best I could see, with the prop in front. Then did the adjustment at the hubs, though with suspension on droop. Since then, has always gone through MOT's with good figures on the brakes.

Thought I should re adjust with the links jacked, as Iv'e got a brake issue, I trying to work through.

It was odd, as then the handbrake had a fair bit more travel.

Have re adjusted with axles drooping and handbrake back to normal. Don't know what's happening.  

[dave.vitesse]

If your Vitesse is a Mk2 check the cable guides are not pushing through the boot floor. Over time due to metal fatigue the tub becomes weak and flexes. 

If this is the case then it's a welding job.

Dave

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Thanks Guys. I miss spelt above. I meant to say, does the rear cable sit tighter in droop position?.

Have re adjusted with axles drooping and handbrake back to normal. Don't know what's happening.  

If you look at the rear suspension, with the axles drooping they hang lower so the cable is pulled further downwards. If you lower it to the ground the strain is taken off the cables so they become slacker. It's best to adjust with the weight of the car on the wheels / axles (I put axle stands under the drums) and conversely, if I'm raising the car by the chassis, I usually take the handbrake off to prevent stretching the cable.

[johny]

does seem strange, I wouldnt have thought the axle movement would make a lot of difference as they pivot on a point not far from the handbrake cable guide. This is probably by design as Triumph wouldnt have wanted brake operation due to suspension movement...

[Pete Lewis]

suspn movement is one thing   hanging on a jack at full droop is a good bit of ''extra '

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

I'm NOT going to allow anyone an opportunity - okay then, I am. Half an inch of movement can make quite a difference.

When my Herald is jacked up the axles rest on the chassis, which i hope doesn't happen when driving, so there is, as Pete says, more movement than in normal use.

[dave.vitesse]

Yes always a pain getting the handbrake right.

Dave

[johny]

Not found it a problem, just adjust at wheels when jacked up and any final tightening when back on the ground take it up at the lever....

[JohnD]

Beg to differ!    Adjustment while the car is in the air and the suspension in full droop can lead to the handbrake tightening up when it's lowered down.

This may depend on if the cable guides are on the chassis, or on the body tub, can't recall which - anyone tell?

John

[dave.vitesse]

Hello, agreed. But we have already covered this.

Please see above.

Thanks,

Dave

[Colin Lindsay]

Last one I did was the Herald and they're on the chassis. If you raise the car with the wheels drooping you can see the cables tightening as the wheels drop further from the cable guides, and in order to get them even close to the brakedrum lever I had to raise the wheels. If I tighten them with the wheels drooping there's far too much movement at the handbrake lever, which goes away again if you lift the car.

[JohnD]

Support the car on axle stands, placed under the rear uprights, so that the suspension remians compressed while it's up.

[dave.vitesse]

4 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Support the car on axle stands, placed under the rear uprights, so that the suspension remians compressed while it's up.

Yes, jack up the uprights, already covered. Agreed

Dave

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

If I tighten them with the wheels drooping there's far too much movement at the handbrake lever, which goes away again if you lift the car.

As mentioned, I did the adjustment after raising the uprights with scissor jacks. That's when I had large movement of handbrake (which I couldn't understand). Adjusted again with axles at droop and handbrake lot less travel?.

It's a a Mk1, by the way

Cheers, Dave  

Edited April 12, 2020 by daverclasper

[Colin Lindsay]

If it works, go for it - I'm going to have to try some experimentation over the next week and report back. I always adjusted them hanging until Pete said not to, so ever since I've stood them on stands if the rest of the car is raised, and since they've passed MOT ever since I assumed that was correct. The manual says 'with the wheels free of the ground' so from that I could infer that they're hanging? (It also says that 'excessive travel of the lever is taken up when the rear brakes are adjusted' which I assume means that whoever is adjusting the rear brakes should automatically adjust the handbrake too.)

Did you know that on early Heralds only one end of the cable was threaded, so only one end (usually the right) could be adjusted?

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

I knew it would be my fault. 

agree the WSM doesn't say support but without measuring the travel and cable angles etc  its simple principles that dictate anything is best in a running condition

theres no doubt full droop or at running does affect the cable length

the underfloor compensator angle is very important at 15Deg   ie it pulls from 5 oclock to 7 oclock so the lever advantage is at its maximum

if is set to go from 6 - 8 you loose a lot of mechanical advantage at the horseshoe. 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

Put the car on axle stands, then raise the uprights with jacks. There will come a point when the whole car will start to lift that's when I stop. But by that time the half-shafts will have lilted off the chassis and the drums closer inboard. It all helps.

Dave

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

It also says that 'excessive travel of the lever is taken up when the rear brakes are adjusted' which I assume means that whoever is adjusting the rear brakes should automatically adjust the handbrake too.)

I can't quite picture the arrangement in my head, though as whenever I adjust the pads to compensate for wear, the handbrake also has less travel, so assumed the hand brake travel was also taken up. 

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

I can't quite picture the arrangement in my head, though as whenever I adjust the pads to compensate for wear, the handbrake also has less travel, so assumed the hand brake travel was also taken up. 

Yes, the first part of the handbrake travel is taking up slack in the cable, the second is taking up travel in the brake shoes. If you reduce the latter, your total handbrake movement is reduced.

[Colin Lindsay]

It's funny but I've been trying to work it out and it seems to me that if you adjust the shoes, you'll actually have MORE loose handbrake cable which will require tightening. You'll have the same amount of slack cable as before, plus the movement required to move the shoes; tighten up the shoes, and that extra movement is no longer required so it's now spare cable. You still need to tighten the cable to remove this excess movement. Or am I calculating it wrong?

[NonMember]

I'm not quite sure how you're figuring that, Colin.

The brake shoes are adjusted at the bottom, the opposite end to the piston and handbrake lever. As you tighten that adjuster, you push the shoes apart at the bottom, forcing them to move round a bit and close up the top. This means the leading shoe is pressing harder on the lever and allows less movement before it engages. Although, that said, there are a couple of big springs holding the shoes away from the drum, so they rest against the lever fairly well regardless.