Additional dash gauges in Mk1 Vitesse Ashtray

[SixasStandard]

Hello All,

Hopefully somebody can save my sanity here........I KNOW that I've seen a period picture of the ash tray on a Mk1 Vitesse modified to fit 3 additional gauges, but I can't for the life of me recall where I saw it, or find it in any of the picture/document archive that I've accumulated. I'm sure that it was a Triumph issued image, and an illustration rather than a photo. Really frustrating, as I'm considering this modification myself, and would be interested in the instructions that were issued in period. Can anyone recall this illustration? or even just where it was published?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Ian   

[Ben Caswell]

Years ago(too many if I'm honest) fairly  sure it was an article in the Courier ,you basically remove the ash tray and its housing that is held in place

by knob mountings either side (choke  control and master light switch ) then make up a blank same shape as the ash tray but a bit bigger to carry the gauges.

[SixasStandard]

12 hours ago, Ben Caswell said:

Years ago(too many if I'm honest) fairly  sure it was an article in the Courier ,you basically remove the ash tray and its housing that is held in place

by knob mountings either side (choke  control and master light switch ) then make up a blank same shape as the ash tray but a bit bigger to carry the gauges.

Thanks Ben,

By coincidence I've just acquired a substantial archive of old Courier copies going back to the early 1990s (thanks Roy!)........so will trawl through them to see if I can find the article you mention. Does anyone know if there is an index anywhere of Courier articles going back that far?

Thanks,

Ian

[Colin Lindsay]

16 hours ago, SixasStandard said:

Hello All,

Hopefully somebody can save my sanity here........I KNOW that I've seen a period picture of the ash tray on a Mk1 Vitesse modified to fit 3 additional gauges, but I can't for the life of me recall where I saw it

I've seen the area where there would be an ashtray in early cars, but not in later, modified for gauges, but this requires having an entire dashboard specially made or cutting the existing. The actual dashtray aperture is quite small and wouldn't take 2" gauges as is, although you could probably get a modern digital version to fit the rectangular space. I'll keep looking through early reference photos, I used to take far too many 35mm photos at the International which are all salted away, but I've trawled the more recent digital ones on the computer and whilst I've found a few suggestions I haven't seen any in the actual ashtray slot, but these may give some idea of scale.

 

 

[Bob Staniforth]

It was two gauges, shown in the Autobook manual. Most of the photos in the manuals came from original Triumph publications.

[Colin Lindsay]

Interesting... considering that it looks like a GT6 dashboard!  (Just the way the photo makes it appear to curve up at the end)

I wonder how it looks, under that replacement surround? Obviously cut and covered... but no details in the book?

 

[SixasStandard]

Thanks Bobs67Vit and Colin,

The illustration that I saw was definitely a line drawing rather than a photo, and did in fact show 3 gauges........but the photo does prove that this was a period correct modification, albeit one that will require cutting of the dash to fit the gauges as you rightly point out Colin. I hadn't thought to check my copy of the Autobook manual.......that might be the answer!!

Thanks again,

Ian

[ahebron]

I have one that looks like the one in the photo. Its in my spares and still has gauges.
IIRC the dash it came out of had been trimmed.

 

Adrian

 

[SixasStandard]

The dash will definitely need to be cut to allow 52mm gauges to be fitted into the ashtray opening, but in my particular case that isn't a problem, as the ashtray will never be used, whereas the clock, oil pressure gauge and voltmeter that I intend to fit most definitely will.

Ian

[Colin Lindsay]

The problem with that one is that it looks like something that has been added on afterwards. It would be interesting if we could find something that looks as though it's meant to be there, from the start. It will require very small gauges, tho... or rectangular versions.

I'm not sure about the Vitesse but the ashtray on the early Herald is different from the later; it's actually smaller and more rectangular.

You can have gauges custom made to almost any size, these guys linked below from US forums are just to show what's possible:

http://redlinegaugeworks.com/

https://www.classicinstruments.com

Two photos of 1950s car gauge arrays below that could maybe be adapted:

 

 

[SixasStandard]

Hello All,

As an addendum to this thread, I've decided not to butcher my Vitesse's dashboard and ashtray in order to fit extra gauges, and instead fit an oil pressure gauge and a Voltmeter in a separate pod mounted on the underside of the dash to the right of the steering column. I did toy with the idea of replacing the period Radiomobile radio in the centre console with the gauges, but couldn't bring myself to remove the radio.......which just looks so right where it is!!  I mocked up a 2 gauge pod in cardboard to see how it would look, and more importantly if it would get in the way of my legs when getting in and out of the car and during normal driving. I'm happy to say that it does neither........so now in the process of making a finished item out of sheet steel. I have made it with a top mounting flange at the front in order to position the gauges further back under the dash, which for me leaves the gauges in the perfect position to view them whilst driving. As you will see from the pictures I ended up riveting the pod together rather than welding, as it was galvanized sheet that I used, and to be honest it was just a lot easier that way. More pictures to follow once it is complete and installed.

Ian 

[dougbgt6]

I have 3 gauges in my radio slot and was contemplating putting a radio back in. I was thinking of putting the gauges in one of these, installed where Ian intends putting his.

2 gauge models are available. 

 

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

Definitely a lot better than the single-skin metal versions which are like bacon slicers if you're not careful! I had to remove a long metal version with radio and two gauges from under the Herald dashboard when it kept slicing my legs.

Lots of older cars used instrument pods, keep an eye out for any coming up for sale as they sometimes look nicer than modern versions.

Don't forget: they don't call them worry gauges for nothing...

[SixasStandard]

1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said:

I have 3 gauges in my radio slot and was contemplating putting a radio back in. I was thinking of putting the gauges in one of these, installed where Ian intends putting his.

2 gauge models are available. 

Come on Doug!!.........really?........given the choice of, on one hand, a professionally designed housing made from modern lightweight materials with full consideration given to safety and ergonomics..........and on the other, a Heath Robinson solution lashed together with a bit of questionable scrap steel and rivets............are you REALLY telling me you'd go with the former?? Luckily I'm too much of a skinflint to buy a manufactured one........plus I don't want to give any money to the Chinese if I can help it!!

On a serious note (for a change).......would a 3 gauge housing fit in the space on the RHS of the column?

Ian 

[68vitesse]

Bit of bent and drilled stainless bought as scrap offcuts so cheap, switch and run light for electric fan. Cigarette lighter socket for twin USB out adapter which displays USB charging current, ambient temperature and volts in car electrical system in sequence.

The volts, oil pressure and when is the fan going to start gives me all the worry I can handle.

Regards

Paul

[dave.vitesse]

Taken in the winter of 1969.

Dave

[dougbgt6]

I had an ammeter on my GT6. Shouldn’t really, the alternator bangs out a lorra lorra current and it all goes through the gauge, the wires had to be VERY heavy and they still got hot.  So I changed it for a battery condition gauge. It’s not as good, by the time you’ve noticed the voltage is dropping it’s too late!  

However, I’ve found this, it’s a Hall effect ammeter. You just put the battery cable through the ring. Sadly It’s LCD and won’t go with the other gauges, but I’m thinking I might be able to mount it in the ash tray on the top of the dash. Longer wires required and some ash tray fettling. But open the ash tray and there it is!
 

Doug

 

[JohnD]

doug,

Thank you!   I've had, or wanted, an ammeter, but I had always assumed they went inot the line between the battery and the car, to monitor current use, not between battery and charging device!   Learn something every day, and you have redoubled that as I now know about Hall Effect ammeters!  See this page from Fluke, is anyone is as ignorant as I am: https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/learn/best-practices/test-tools-basics/clamp-meters/inside-hall-effect-clamp-meters

John

PS I'm sure that the digital gauge is just to minimise cost.    You should be able to find a dial gauge that can be usd with the sensor.  This book describes how!  https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1DpDCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT164&lpg=PT164&dq=fitting+a+"hall+effect"+ammeter+with+a+dial+gauge&source=bl&ots=bpf-ZY2nhq&sig=ACfU3U14u0Q-pxpP3zf3iq6hbOCfkuK0xA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjisMaVq6fqAhWMQRUIHUU1AfEQ6AEwCnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=fitting a "hall effect" ammeter with a dial gauge&f=false

 

[dougbgt6]

John,

Not sure what point you're trying to make, as you say the ammeter should show charge and discharge between battery and car, if it persistently only shows discharge yer alternator ain't working. So, yes, you're monitoring your alternator. 

The problem with dial gauges you've found is that they are voltmeters calibrated to represent current. What I would really like is a gauge that says "Smiths" and "Amps" As we have discussed before style is all! I used to have a Smiths shunt ammeter, but sadly they don't make them anymore. 

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

13 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

The problem with dial gauges you've found is that they are voltmeters calibrated to represent current. What I would really like is a gauge that says "Smiths" and "Amps" As we have discussed before style is all! I used to have a Smiths shunt ammeter, but sadly they don't make them anymore. 

Doug

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Instrument-Binnacle-with-Oil-Pressure-Gauge-Ammeter/193529442229?hash=item2d0f40efb5:g:Hp0AAOSwocFe64JE

Comes with a nice little binnacle too... there's also a gauge on its' own for £9.50.. but why do I think that's TOO easy?

I thought I had one until I remembered that it had been +50 to -50 and I sold it on eBay long ago. I like this one, from a Jag:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaeger-IP-2500-02-Smiths-Gauge-For-Amps-And-Oil/392848085847?hash=item5b77921357:g:P-UAAOSwiX1eUlmM

[JohnD]

17 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

John,

Not sure what point you're trying to make, as you say the ammeter should show charge and discharge between battery and car, if it persistently only shows discharge yer alternator ain't working. So, yes, you're monitoring your alternator.  

Doug

Doug, 

I can do aero, but those wires carry angry pixies as far as I know!    As I said, I'm ignorant!

[SixasStandard]

2 hours ago, dave.vitesse said:

Taken in the winter of 1969.

Dave

Apologies in advance.......but I just couldn't help myself.........

I got my first real six cylinder

Bought it off the Canley line

Drove it till the trunnions bled

Was the winter of '69

 

Me and some guys from the club

Had a trolley jack and we tried real hard

Jimmy quit and Jody got spanner rash

I shoulda known we’d never get far

 

But when I look back now

That winter seemed to last forever

And if I had the choice

Yea I’d have def bought a Capri

Those were the best cars at the time

 

Ain’t no use in complainin’

When you got a trunnion to do

Spent my evenin’s down at the lock up

And that’s when I met you, ya

 

Riding on your brother’s Puch

You told me trunnions take forever

Oh, and when you offered your spanner

I noticed it was a flippin’ Snap On  

Those were the best tools at that time

Back in the winter of ‘69

[SixasStandard]

Hello All,

Remind me to curtail my comic genius in future ......... and thanks Dave for the charity laughing emoji.........there aught to be one with a windswept tumbleweed!

Anyway, have now completed the gauge housing and temporarily installed it in the car. All looks ok to me, clearly visible from the driving position, and not getting in the way of anything. I'll connect up the gauges after I've got the steering rack gaiter sorted.

Two gauges fit in nicely, but three would look a bit crowded in my opinion, although you could manage it if you relocated the trip meter reset to the other side of the steering column.

Ian 

[dougbgt6]

Ian,

Nice work! Classier than my plastic jobie.

Now where's the vacuum gauge going to go?

Doug

[SixasStandard]

1 minute ago, dougbgt6 said:

Now where's the vacuum gauge going to go?

I'll have to start adding gauges to the top of the dash now that I've filled all the available space underneath! Would a G force gauge be too optimistic in a Vitesse?

Ian