Braided brake hoses

[Chris Longhurst]

A couple of questions on braided brake hoses:-

1. I fitted braided hoses all round to my 1200 Herald Convertible in ~1988 when doing a rebuild - I'm assuming these braided hoses are 'lined' with rubber. How long do these last before needing replacement? (I think they were Goodrich brand which at the time was regarded a reputable brand)

2. I need to remove the front calipers (seized pistons) - can these braided hoses be clamped in the same way as ordinary 'all rubber' hoses or is it a case of catching the fluid in a contained for later disposal?

Thanks - Chris (78-00350)

[Pete Lewis]

sorry  never clamp a braided hose the stainless  or plastic based  braid will not recover and the thin walled plastic liner might never recover  

i cannot recommend clamping  ANY  brake hose you stand a good chance of wrecking the  inner core and you have no way of knowing

not even with the supposed tools available  for years to do this dastardly work ... it is not worth the risk 

no hose manufacturer will accept clamping as a  advisable method 

 and all you save is 0.5 ltr of fluid thats probably past its date and 5% water 

pete

 

[Chris Longhurst]

37 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

sorry  never clamp a braided hose the stainless  or plastic based  braid will not recover and the thin walled plastic liner might never recover  

i cannot recommend clamping  ANY  brake hose you stand a good chance of wrecking the  inner core and you have no way of knowing

not even with the supposed tools available  for years to do this dastardly work ... it is not worth the risk 

no hose manufacturer will accept clamping as a  advisable method 

 and all you save is 0.5 ltr of fluid thats probably past its date and 5% water 

pete

 

Thanks Pete - totally agree with you on question #2 regarding clamping.

What about the longevity (question #2) of braided hoses - how many years before they need replacement? With rubber hoses it is easier to spot degradation!

Thanks - Chris

[Colin Lindsay]

52 minutes ago, Chris Longhurst said:

1. I fitted braided hoses all round to my 1200 Herald Convertible in ~1988 when doing a rebuild - I'm assuming these braided hoses are 'lined' with rubber. How long do these last before needing replacement? (I think they were Goodrich brand which at the time was regarded a reputable brand)

Treat them as rubber hoses with a metal outer for protection; they last only as long as normal rubber hoses and believe me can deteriorate under the braiding. They don't make any difference to braking as some sellers claim, if the rubber is so soft that it needs a metal outer to keep it in shape then it's perished and if it can't expand outwards it'll collapse inwards. The braided hoses look thinner but it's only because they have a metal outer which can be much thinner than the rubber version, but inside they're really only the same - a thin rubber pipe for the fluid and a protective outer. I replaced my GT6 hoses after 15 years once I noticed some deterioration, using Club-supplied Goodrich hoses, but on the Herald I'm just using rubber; cheaper for one thing but no difference in performance.

 

[poppyman]

When i bought my Stag it had braided hoses...... First thing i did was take them off and put them in the bin. I do still clamp hoses, but only for a short time. If overnight i use brake pipe fitting with flattened end pipe.

Tony.

[Pete Lewis]

http://www.arctechhydraulics.co.za/the-lifespan-of-brake-hoses/#:~:text=The average safe working life,will need brake hoses replaced.

Pete

[Chris Longhurst]

Thanks everyone - time for new hoses as well as calipers - I'll check to see if the front calipers can be reconditioned; probably time for new ones or professionally reconditioned ones.  I put in new pistons/seals 22 years ago but seem to recall that several days were spent removing the old ones!

Just remembered (from 30+ years ago!) that a double or triple layer of cling film over the master cylinder reservoir (held in place by the reservoir cap) will stop all the brake fluid running out & ensures the seals in master cylinder/wheel cylinders stay 'lubricated'.

[Pete Lewis]

would you not prefer to drain and fill new calipers with clean fluid . ????

who wants to keep old stuff ?????

Pete

[Chris Longhurst]

36 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

would you not prefer to drain and fill new calipers with clean fluid . ????

who wants to keep old stuff ?????

Pete

Of course I will use new fluid for final bleeding; but as it may (almost certainly will!) take me several weeks to complete the work with the calipers off of the car I would rather have the old fluid in the system while waiting to complete the work so the MC & rear cylinder seals do not dry out.

The final bleed fluid will come from a new sealed 'can' of brake fluid.

I generally change the fluid every 2-3years but have been a bit lax of late as the Herald has been off the road for a while. On my modern car and my wife's modern car I have the fluid changed every 2 years during the dealer service to be on the safe side.

[yorkshire_spam]

Personally I don't really like braided hoses for the reasons given above (no way to see when they are past it and need replacing unless the outer braid is physically damaged). The only application where I'll consider them is where a custom flexible is required, such as the brake conversion I have on the front of my Dolomite (originally fixed caliper with fixed pipe, now a moving caliper with a very short custom flexible pipe), on top of that I wouldn't clamp one under any circumstances as the teflon inners aren't really up to it.

BUT I disagree about clamping standard rubber hoses, provided the hose isn't already past it and you do it properly I don't see anything wrong with clamping a standard rubber flexible brake hose.

 

[Pete Lewis]

good to see youre into fluid changes , i see where youre coming from , the seals will be fine whatever you do thick about the shelf life its quite a lot f years 

pete

 

[trigolf]

On 17/07/2020 at 09:08, Chris Longhurst said:

A couple of questions on braided brake hoses:-

1. I fitted braided hoses all round to my 1200 Herald Convertible in ~1988 when doing a rebuild - I'm assuming these braided hoses are 'lined' with rubber. How long do these last before needing replacement? (I think they were Goodrich brand which at the time was regarded a reputable brand)

2. I need to remove the front calipers (seized pistons) - can these braided hoses be clamped in the same way as ordinary 'all rubber' hoses or is it a case of catching the fluid in a contained for later disposal?

Thanks - Chris (78-00350)

Chris, You beat me too it.

I was thinking the very same question myself this morning. I too got persuaded, many years ago, to fit Goodrich braided hoses and have had no problems with them. BUT - they are now approaching 20+ years old and as stated there's no way to physically inspect them for deterioration. Also, as mentioned, you can't clamp them off to replace a cylinder, although like Pete, I've never been very keen on doing it that way.

As I'm halfway through the servo rebuild, I'm thinking this would be a good time to change all the hoses and replace with trad rubber ones. 

1.Does anyone know if the standard rubber hoses come with copper sealing washers now ?

2.Also the original rubber hoses for the front used to be supplied with the outer anti-chafe spring. But browsing the net, I can't see any that do now.

3.My other concern is that you hear so many tales of rubbish quality rubber now. Does anyone happen to know where the hoses are made now ?

Gav

 

[Colin Lindsay]

1. No

2. No. Well, some do, but not all, so check if possible.

3. No.

I've just replaced the Herald hoses, had to buy the copper washers as extras. Also had to reuse the outer springs but luckily had a few spare.

I've no idea of who makes the ones I bought; they were just supplied in clear packets (Paddocks) and I reckon three to five years will require another change.

 

[Chris Longhurst]

3 hours ago, trigolf said:

2.Also the original rubber hoses for the front used to be supplied with the outer anti-chafe spring. But browsing the net, I can't see any that do now.

Gav

 

Even back in the late 70s/80s, when I was 'busy' with my (then) 'fleet' of Heralds,  I don't ever recall new rubber hoses (usually purchased from Halfords or similar) coming with the anti-chafe springs - maybe they were sold separately. I always transferred the springs to the new hoses. So ingrained was the habit that I fitted them to the braided hoses when I fitted them to the car 20+ years ago - so at least I know where they are!!

Chris

[Mad4classics]

4 hours ago, trigolf said:

2.Also the original rubber hoses for the front used to be supplied with the outer anti-chafe spring. But browsing the net, I can't see any that do now.

Quinton Hazel brake hoses are still supplied with the anti-chaff spring if originally fitted. Bought some recently when I needed new hoses because I had one black plastic spring and one metal. 

David