Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I've just dismantled the front end, and amongst the memories flooding back to me are having to hacksaw through trunnion-to-wishbone bolts. Such a delight. Once apart, it became obvious that with the bolt rusting into the sleeve inside the nylon tophats, the sheet steel sides of the wishbone had now become the bearing surface and the holes had worn badly oval. When I was younger I never considered such things, but I'm wondering if it would be worth sticking a blob of weld on the wishbone next to the head of the bolt and grinding it flat, to locate the bolt so that it can no longer turn in the wishbone arms, thereby forcing the trunnion to act as the pivot like it's supposed to? I going to bet this has been a common mod for over thirty years and I'm re-inventing the wheel... Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hi Interesting?. I was looking at the 13/60 earlier to-day. and I am sure the Upper wishbone fastenings have a "U" shaped washer, welded to the Tower top, doing the same thing?. Pete P.s. It`s difficult to see, but it is there at the top of the tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 It just seems strange that they should go to all the trouble of designing that fancy trunnion with nylon top hats etc, but the bolt quickly rusts in the sleeve and the nylon does nothing. The bolt turns in the wishbone and the holes wear oval, allowing movement between trunnion and wishbone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Hi To be fair, I would think that a short welded Strip, either side of the Bolt head would do the same thing?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Yes, that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Roger K said: It just seems strange that they should go to all the trouble of designing that fancy trunnion with nylon top hats etc, but the bolt quickly rusts in the sleeve and the nylon does nothing. The bolt turns in the wishbone and the holes wear oval, allowing movement between trunnion and wishbone. I dont understand, surely the sleeve is clamped between the two arms of the wishbone and should never rotate on the bolt? It shouldnt make any difference if the sleeve rusts onto the bolt (apart from dismantling of course) as the nylon top hats will still rotate on the sleeve and, unless it was very loose to start with, the bolt will never rotate in the wishbone... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, johny said: I dont understand, surely the sleeve is clamped between the two arms of the wishbone and should never rotate on the bolt? It shouldnt make any difference if the sleeve rusts onto the bolt (apart from dismantling of course) as the nylon top hats will still rotate on the sleeve and, unless it was very loose to start with, the bolt will never rotate in the wishbone... I think that is how they should work, but on teh other hand Roger has a point with the number of ovalled wishbones out there, must be half of teh ones I see. I have repaired several sets, one for a forum member on here a few months ago. My solution was to dump the trunnions and use trunnionless. But nothing inherently wrong with well maintained trunnions. The important bit being well maintained, and ideally not had 50 years of abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Perhaps the trunnion shields rust away leaving the bolt loose - its tightness might be something to check regularly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I assume the correct operation is for the sleeve to rotate around the bolt. This may well be a false assumption, but if not I’d think it is doomed to failure - the part that holds the sleeve firm between the wishbone arms is the bolt itself. An anti-rotation device seems necessary to me, and easy to do. It is actually a similar problem to the apalling design of the door hinges for XK Jaguars, which is why so many old or poorly-restored ones have doors that flop all over the place. I spent several weeks last year uprating and fixing mine, horrible job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 no, no, its got to be the nylon bushes turning on the sleeve otherwise some sort of lubrication point would be needed. The bolt should keep the sleeve clamped solid and anyway its hard to see where much force to spin the sleeve/bolt would come from as the friction between the nylon and sleeve will be minimal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 OK, that makes sense. Clearly mine weren’t working properly as the nylon was not moving on the sleeve. Maybe it’s worth making sure the sleeve is not too tight a fit in the nylon? Maybe a mod to engage the sleeve with the wishbone, when assembled, would do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I do wonder whether these parts we're getting these days are right. Its critical that the sleeve + dust shields is long enough to leave the trunnion and nylon bushes free axially, if not then it would be possible to have the sleeve loose. I suppose if the top hats are a very tight fit on the sleeve theres a risk they will rotate in the trunnion instead🤪 The sectioned diagram in the workshop manual shows very well how it should all fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Roger K said: It just seems strange that they should go to all the trouble of designing that fancy trunnion with nylon top hats etc, but the bolt quickly rusts in the sleeve and the nylon does nothing. The bolt turns in the wishbone and the holes wear oval, allowing movement between trunnion and wishbone. Plenty of copper grease has always worked for me... but as Johny has pointed out I've found some trunnions in the past with overlong tubes that I've had to grind down, and others where the tube is too short and I've had to reuse old ones. Some of the rubber seals have the wrong profile too; the original was a square profile but we're just getting large O-rings these days in some kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oh dear - I’ve assembled the rear suspension and noticed the vertical links are very stiff to move on the rear trunnion block. I don’t want those going oval on me. Maybe dismantling time again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I have numerous spare kits including an original Leyland one still in the paper Leyland bag, will have a look with the vernier to see the variation. All the kits have the sq section o ring but of varying thickness's and tension! Some of the aftermarket kits I have have S/S tubes it's the reason I brought them, but like Lindsey I always liberally coat them in copper grease Roger on the rear one's I've always liked the idea of a grease nipple so the tube/bush's can be lubricated I'll do t one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Roger K said: Oh dear - I’ve assembled the rear suspension and noticed the vertical links are very stiff to move on the rear trunnion block. I don’t want those going oval on me. Maybe dismantling time again... 42 - 46 ft.lb is the tightening torque for the swing axle rear trunnion bolt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: I have numerous spare kits including an original Leyland one still in the paper Leyland bag, will have a look with the vernier to see the variation. All the kits have the sq section o ring but of varying thickness's and tension! Some of the aftermarket kits I have have S/S tubes it's the reason I brought them, but like Lindsey I always liberally coat them in copper grease I didnt know SS tubes were available in standard kits which is much better! I thought they only came with the expensive polybush ones☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, johny said: 42 - 46 ft.lb is the tightening torque for the swing axle rear trunnion bolt.... That’s what I did them to... ...but no grease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 the aftermarket kits are un-named but at least one has a S/S tube a magnet test proved it. I've never looked at the poly bush alternative having spare original options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 SS is certainly worth having as its a horrible job dismantling a rusted one! Now as part of routine maintenance every year I jack the car up and check my trunnion bolts are free by undoing the nuts and tapping the bolt along a little while trying to get some lube in.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Can anyone give a good recommendation as to which trunnion kits to buy? I have the standard offerings from Rimmers and Canley, both being the same blue plastic ones. I had to trim the metal washers to make them thinner just to get them between the vertical link flanges, and thin the rubber square section rings. Are there better ones available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just seen the 'trunnionless' kit on Rimmers' site - not cheap, but does it do the job reliably and last well, I wonder? And it doesn't solve the rearr problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 To decide on mods like that I think what the annual mileage of our cars is likely to be should be taken into account. However I know some people go for the front trunnionless system not because of the plastic bushes but more the risk of catastrophic failure of the threaded portion of the vertical link and thats a personal choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Here's a sketch as supplied in one of my kits. Interestingly I have two trunnions kits fully assembled in new brass LH & RH Trunnion assembly ready to fit complete (cable tied to hold together), these have the red bush's mentioned in the sketch. Then I have two other complete kits with light blue and black bush's, one has substantial sq section rubber band seals the other rather flimsy, unfortunately there just all loose in a plastic bag so mix n match! The brass trunnions RH & LH were supplied new here in Aus in 2010 for just $21 for both a steal! Re rear trunnion bush's there's 3 complete car sets with a mixture of black and white plastic bush's, who's, what, where, and why, I have no idea but they'll last me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 The ones on Mine are From Canley?, But I think the actual Trunions came from Rimmer?. I seem to remember that when I removed them it was a "Marathon" effort involving large hammers, punches and the angle grinder. Getting them back in place was relatively easy. (by comparison). I think I left a much as possible untightened. And went round hardening everything up to Torque when back in place. However that was over 2 years ago!. Long before I started on the Bodywork!. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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