Priming system

[AlanT]

Hello, 

Finally trying to start my Spit after 5 years resto, 20 since it last ran. Can’t get fuel through. It’s possible the pump is dud (how do I check?) or is priming required somehow? 
Thanks 

Alan

 

[Colin Lindsay]

The pump pumps much better with the engine turning than with the priming lever (I can't see one but assume you have one on the pump?) It helps if the pump has fuel, although it will pump air until the fuel reaches it - I'd disconnect the fuel line at the carbs and apply suction, either some kind of vacuum pump or very carefully suck the end of the pipe to get the fuel as close to the carb as possible before trying again to start it. That filter looks completely dry, though - there may be a blockage in the tank outlet or in the fuel line between the pump and tank. If sucking the pipe doesn't get fuel through (watch it closely if it does reach the filter for rust particles, they'll tell you the state of the tank) I'd either blow down the line to clear it or dismantle and examine.

[JohnD]

You are running the mechanical fuel pump seen in the pic?     If that wasn't renovated - or replaced, those metal ones aren't repairable - then it's quite likely that the diaphragm has perished.

But what else could be preventing flow?    Inspect the inside of the tank, is there crud in there to block the outlet?     An LED torch is safe to look inside, or an endoscope ideal.

Blow through the fuel pipes from the rear, in case the crud is already in there.  Air line ideal, You could try blowing by lung!

Test the pump, by connecting it to a container of fuel so that it should pump in a circle as you turn over the engine.  Include your dinky little fliter in the circuit so you can see flow if it occurs.

If all is well, then prime the fuel pipes with fuel; it's more difficult to pump compressible air than fuel, and will shorten the time you will need to turn the engine over to get fuel to the carbs.

And, if the pump is toast, get an electric one.     A Facet Solid State is £20-40 and the smallest is enough for 1500.   See: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/pages/facet-fuel-pumps-for-vehicles-running-carburettors-282

John

[AlanT]

Thanks John, Colin,

The tank is a clean secondhand replacement, all fuel lines are new. Probably the pump then. Will take it off and look at it again! 
Must do a list of the parts I’ve replaced on this car. Pretty much everything bar chassis and diff! 
Alan

[Josef]

Also check you have plenty of fuel in the tank! I put half a gallon can in my MkIII tank and then spent ages fiddling with fuel pumps etc, till I finally decided to put the rest of the can in and then lo and behold it started fine. I assume you have the later tank with the pickup pipe from the top? Not sure how easy it is to remove with the tank in the car, but it could be worth unscrewing it and dipping the tank to check if the pipe end will be sufficiently submerged in fuel. 

[AlanT]

Hi Josef,

Ahead of you! Was my first thought so put 1.5 gallons in.

Almost certainly an ancient pump issue.

Thanks 

Alan

[johny]

I can blow fuel through from my tank using lungs on the filler but not sure it thats possible on a Spit. Its easier if the pipe is open into a container before the pump and you just need to pressurise the tank a bit and wait until fuel makes its way along...

[AlanT]

I’ve ordered a new pump. This one is gone. It’s original so perhaps I was optimistic! 

[JohnD]

Just to help others that might need advice, Alan, what test told you the pump was U/s?

Have you gone for a new mechanical pump?  Priming easier with electric!

John

[AlanT]

Hi John,

I turned the engine over on the battery for 2 mins, made sure the fuel lines are clear, fuel available. No action from the pump. It’s been stood 20 years outside and, based on the rest of the car, won’t have faired well. 
I’ve gone mechanical again since I want the car as near original spec as possible (bar the slot mags, exhaust and earlier ‘Triumph’ number plate light). 
Alan

[johny]

I think theres more than one type for spitfire and not interchangeable...

[Pete Lewis]

looking its a 1500 these in the main had a long arm pump and a plastic heat spacer  ive seen J Paddocks selling a long arm 

you cannot mix and match a std (used everywhere else ) needs the spacer removing and studs changing ( or spacers under the nuts)

use a short arm on spacers , no stroke no fuel 

use a long arm pump with   no spacer excess stroke excess fueling  

always check you have the pump arm outside the cam and not hooked under it 

the prime lever will only work if the lever is on the back of the cam   or its already being pulled down and the prime lever wont do much

Pete

 

[AlanT]

Think we have the issue then Pete. And now I’m worried! When I bought the car it had a dud 1300 Dolomite engine it it. I put the pump onto the 1500 engine.

Ive no idea what year the engine actually is and have ordered the up to ‘79 pump from here. How would I tell if, in fact, I need the later pump? https://www.angclassiccarparts.co.uk/products/triumph-5981/spitfire/fuel-system

[AlanT]

Answering my own question…think I’ve botched. The block number is FM98902 which is the later type I believe! Better call them tomorrow 

[Josef]

Based on this http://www.spitlist.info/1500b.htm (which is commission numbers rather than engine numbers, but they’ll be close enough to give an idea) your engine is likely from a 79 US/Canada spec Spit originally.

[Pete Lewis]

you can use a short arm pump  just delete the plastic spacer 

but a long arm will need one   mini spares sell them  as many Triumphs all show as unavailable

http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Engine/Block/Gaskets/GUG705603GM.aspx?100108&ReturnUrl=/product/Classic/Engine/Block/Gaskets/GUG705779GM.aspx|Back to

pete

[AlanT]

Thanks Pete, Josef.

You’re right about availability. Roger, who sent me a great radiator, has once again rescued me. Very thankful.

Interesting to hear the engine may have been NA/Canada. When I stripped it it had a standard crank and shells, no measurable wear! I’ve changed the shells anyway. It’s running HS4 Carbs. Is the compression different vs UK engines? Or just the carbs and emissions stuff they put on NA cars? 
Thanks 

Alan

 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Alan

                 Try this

Triumph Spitfire Head Swaps

Roger

[Clive]

1 hour ago, AlanT said:

Thanks Pete, Josef.

You’re right about availability. Roger, who sent me a great radiator, has once again rescued me. Very thankful.

Interesting to hear the engine may have been NA/Canada. When I stripped it it had a standard crank and shells, no measurable wear! I’ve changed the shells anyway. It’s running HS4 Carbs. Is the compression different vs UK engines? Or just the carbs and emissions stuff they put on NA cars? 
Thanks 

Alan

 

You need to look at the suffix of the engine number. HE is std UK high compression. 

But as Roger alludes, the head is teh all imprtant bit (unless it has the USA low comp dished pistons.)

I have no idea if the USA got the same engine numbers as the UK but different suffix.

[AlanT]

Thanks. It’s HE so should be good. Will look again at the head.

Alan

[AlanT]

Success! We have fuel. Once again courtesy of Roger sending me the part. The old pump was done.

Not running yet as I flattened the battery. And doubtless there will be loads of fiddling about to get it going! Thanks everyone.