Advice for a newbie

[Bruce Raybould]

Hi I was wondering if anyone is kind enough to help. I have just bought a Vitesse mk 1 1966. The previous owner has swapped out the overdrive gearbox.  It certainly needs an overdrive.  My question is what gearboxes will straight swap with an overdrive on and hopefully mesh gears. I read somewhere a Spitfire? And where can I get one? Thanks in advance and bearing with me.

[Wagger]

Looks like a 1600/6 as there is no 2L badge on the grille. Is it still a 1600cc engine?

The gearbox on the 1600 was different from the 2 litre and the overdrive box has a different mainshaft from the non-overdrive version. No suppliers will exchange a non overdrive box for one with an overdrive, You will need to find the overdrive, an adapter plate, a different gearbox output shaft and a shorter propshaft.

Depending upon your finances you could fit a Mazda five speed box. These cost about £2k. They are available.

Scouring the land and other members for spares may prove fruitful.

If you choose to fit a 2000cc or 2500cc engine and transmission, you should uprate the brakes.

Good luck. It looks like a nice car.

 

[JohnD]

Bruce, not sure what you're asking.  An O/d will not strap to the back of a non-O/d gearbox - the output shafts are different.   

Oh, Wagger got there first and in more detail!

[Josef]

Well the author of this thread might be able to point you in the direction of a Vitesse overdrive gearbox!

 

[Wagger]

Another load of answers on a club thread below:-

https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/2475-overdrive-conversion/

 

[Bruce Raybould]

3 hours ago, Wagger said:

Looks like a 1600/6 as there is no 2L badge on the grille. Is it still a 1600cc engine?

The gearbox on the 1600 was different from the 2 litre and the overdrive box has a different mainshaft from the non-overdrive version. No suppliers will exchange a non overdrive box for one with an overdrive, You will need to find the overdrive, an adapter plate, a different gearbox output shaft and a shorter propshaft.

Depending upon your finances you could fit a Mazda five speed box. These cost about £2k. They are available.

Scouring the land and other members for spares may prove fruitful.

If you choose to fit a 2000cc or 2500cc engine and transmission, you should uprate the brakes.

Good luck. It looks like a nice car.

 

 

[Bruce Raybould]

Thanks. It is indeed the 1..6. I knew I needed the gearbox but just wondered if there was a swap I could do off another car with Overdrive already fitted. Thanks for your help 

[Bruce Raybould]

3 hours ago, Josef said:

Well the author of this thread might be able to point you in the direction of a Vitesse overdrive gearbox!

 

Thanks. I did glance at that. But wasn't sure if I could do a straight swap. 

[Bruce Raybould]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Bruce, not sure what you're asking.  An O/d will not strap to the back of a non-O/d gearbox - the output shafts are different.   

Oh, Wagger got there first and in more detail!

Hi, thanks for that.  I was simply wondering if there was a straight swap I could do to add a gearbox with the overdrive.  As ever with these things it's always more complicated than it first seems.

[Clive]

6 hours ago, Bruce Raybould said:

Hi, thanks for that.  I was simply wondering if there was a straight swap I could do to add a gearbox with the overdrive.  As ever with these things it's always more complicated than it first seems.

Simply put, you need an overdrive gearbox of any vitesse or GT6 or even early dolomite 1850 (rare as hens teeth!) It will also need a shorter propshaft. Anything other gearbox is complex and "involving"

 

[Bruce Raybould]

15 minutes ago, clive said:

Simply put, you need an overdrive gearbox of any vitesse or GT6 or even early dolomite 1850 (rare as hens teeth!) It will also need a shorter propshaft. Anything other gearbox is complex and "involving"

 

Thank you Clive. Keep it simple for me! Thanks again. Bruce

[Wagger]

I did this conversion on a 1600/6 in 1974. Bought a second car with all of the bits and transferred it all. Whole car was £40!

In those days you could buy and 'Overdrive kit' for about £120 new.

My vitesse has a 2.5 engine, a late GT6/early Dolomite 3 rail gearbox and a 3.63:1 differential. I have a J type overdrive in a box but lack everyting else but the switches and wiring already on the car. If I find anything in my searches, will let you know.

[Bruce Raybould]

That's really kind. Thank you. It looks like I am at  the start of a long journey.

[Pete Lewis]

i converted my Vit6 to a 4 sync she already had a dtype OD but the 3 sync 1st gear whine was nice to loose 

we used a spitfire 4 sync internals in the orig case and added a tkc923 mainshaft to mate the OD 

the simplest/cheapest  mod would be to source a 3.63 diff   much less work and improves cruising revs a lot 

the 1600 will still pull well with the higher ratio with out the hassle of mix and matching gearboxes 

Pete

[Wagger]

45 minutes ago, Bruce Raybould said:

That's really kind. Thank you. It looks like I am at  the start of a long journey.

All lot of this depends upon how you want to use the car. Mine is fine anywhere except motorways and long dual carriageways where it sounds too 'Busy'. The 3.63:1 diff gives me about 18mph per 1000rpm so 3000rpm is 54mph without an overdrive. 4000=72. Anything over 3500rpm is a bit loud, depending quite a bit upon your exhaust system. I can rarely exceed 60mph for more that 5 minutes where I live. East Sussex has very few dual carriageways.

[Bruce Raybould]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

i converted my Vit6 to a 4 sync she already had a dtype OD but the 3 sync 1st gear whine was nice to loose 

we used a spitfire 4 sync internals in the orig case and added a tkc923 mainshaft to mate the OD 

the simplest/cheapest  mod would be to source a 3.63 diff   much less work and improves cruising revs a lot 

the 1600 will still pull well with the higher ratio with out the hassle of mix and matching gearboxes 

Pete

Hi Pete, many thanks. I like simple. It's usually the best way.

[Pete Lewis]

it depends on how involved you wish to hobby,

giving the OD a switch under power in 3rd gives a satisfying Va varroom,

one snag with triumph gear ratios is 4th and OD 3rd are about the same  so you dont get a split shift of ratios you only get 5 not 6 

Rootes were better at this in ratio selections 

Pete

[Bruce Raybould]

Thanks Pete,

I am used to Landrovers so I know a bottomless pit when I see one!

It's knowing when to stop.

[Pete Lewis]

hopefully its a shallower pit than a  Landy 

Pete

[Wagger]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

it depends on how involved you wish to hobby,

giving the OD a switch under power in 3rd gives a satisfying Va varroom,

one snag with triumph gear ratios is 4th and OD 3rd are about the same  so you dont get a split shift of ratios you only get 5 not 6 

Rootes were better at this in ratio selections 

Pete

Same on my Dolly 1850. o/d third was equal to 4th. Did they ever do a wider ratio box?

[johny]

well on these boxes 4th always has to be straight through so a ratio of 1 which limits how wide the other ratios can be spaced and still be useable. The Vitesse/GT6 box could be considered a close ratio unit because the torque the engine develops means 1st has to be quite a high ratio.

Talking about the engine I think any new owner of a six cylinder does need time to get accustomed to the beautiful but 'higher revving' sound it makes compared with a 4....

[Wagger]

48 minutes ago, johny said:

well on these boxes 4th always has to be straight through so a ratio of 1 which limits how wide the other ratios can be spaced and still be useable. The Vitesse/GT6 box could be considered a close ratio unit because the torque the engine develops means 1st has to be quite a high ratio.

Talking about the engine I think any new owner of a six cylinder does need time to get accustomed to the beautiful but 'higher revving' sound it makes compared with a 4....

Absolutely, it is one of the best sounds made by an engine, more musical than a V8. An aquaintance thought that my B-I-L's MGB-V8 was idling too fast. It was 400 rpm.

[Bruce Raybould]

14 minutes ago, Wagger said:

Absolutely, it is one of the best sounds made by an engine, more musical than a V8. An aquaintance thought that my B-I-L's MGB-V8 was idling too fast. It was 400 rpm.

Hahaha. I have to get that sorted out as well..we idle at 1,500 at the moment. That stinks I can tell you. 😀

[Bruce Raybould]

On 23/01/2022 at 12:13, Wagger said:

All lot of this depends upon how you want to use the car. Mine is fine anywhere except motorways and long dual carriageways where it sounds too 'Busy'. The 3.63:1 diff gives me about 18mph per 1000rpm so 3000rpm is 54mph without an overdrive. 4000=72. Anything over 3500rpm is a bit loud, depending quite a bit upon your exhaust system. I can rarely exceed 60mph for more that 5 minutes where I live. East Sussex has very few dual carriageways.

Thanks Wagger,  that is really useful.  It's good to know what I should be expecting. 

[mark powell]

On 23/01/2022 at 15:55, johny said:

well on these boxes 4th always has to be straight through so a ratio of 1 which limits how wide the other ratios can be spaced and still be useable. The Vitesse/GT6 box could be considered a close ratio unit because the torque the engine develops means 1st has to be quite a high ratio.

Talking about the engine I think any new owner of a six cylinder does need time to get accustomed to the beautiful but 'higher revving' sound it makes compared with a 4....

My old Mays converted 6 cyl Mk3 Ford Zodiac was a joy to listen to,  2.6 litre, triple SU's, Piper cam and 6 branch manifold...   I really miss that car.