Herald/Spitfire Mk. 1 & 2/Vitesse 1600 Type 12 Caliper Mounts

[JumpingFrog]

Hi,

I'm converting my Standard 10 to disc brakes and need a pair of early caliper to upright brackets, with spacing to fit Type 12 and Type 14 calipers. All the other parts I seem to have...

Unfortunately I can't use the later style uprights with the integrated caliper mounts in this application, they won't work with the Standard 10 steering geometry. And from all suppliers these mounts are only available as a fancy (expensive) alloy type reproduction that would be very out of place on a Standard 10.

Picture from the parts diagram (courtesy Canley Classics):

Many thanks,
David

[Colin Lindsay]

Hard to find, try Chic Doig for a used set, although you could always paint the alloy ones black?

[johny]

Yes theyre the ones you want to upgrade Vitesse or GT6 brakes arent they?

[JumpingFrog]

23 minutes ago, johny said:

Yes theyre the ones you want to upgrade Vitesse or GT6 brakes arent they?

There are two different types, one for Type 12/14 calipers and later ones for Type 16 calipers. I need the earlier Type 12/14 type which was only fitted to Herald 1200s (with optional disc brakes), Spitfire Mk. I and Mk. II and also the Vitesse 1600.

 

46 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Hard to find, try Chic Doig for a used set, although you could always paint the alloy ones black?

I could paint them, but I was hoping for a cheaper solution than the alloy ones. Something about fitting a Standard 8/10 with parts that "will reduce all important unsprung weight" is a juxtaposition to me. I will try Chic, I've tried everyone else I know and got nowhere... Thanks.

[johny]

Yes theyre the ones that have the correct hole spacing for fitting bigger calipers to the 2L cars so unfortunately for you making them highly sought after. Hence its worth making them in alloy....

[JumpingFrog]

12 minutes ago, johny said:

Yes theyre the ones that have the correct hole spacing for fitting bigger calipers to the 2L cars so unfortunately for you making them highly sought after. Hence its worth making them in alloy....

Sorry, I think we have crossed-wires here. The Type 16 ones are for the bigger 2L calipers, these are much easier to find. I've done this conversion on my Herald and finding parts was straight forward.

I just want to fit the smaller Type 14 calipers from a 4-cylinder car to my Standard. The parts I want are rare, because they weren't used for long before the Type 14 caliper was introduced along with the later upright design. The later upright I can't use as the Standards have different steering arms.

I'm not entirely sure on the rationale for reproducing these in alloy, there are other forgings being made still such as uprights and even steering arms. If I wanted to remove weight, I would start with fitting an alloy caliper, not the mount that is 1/8th the weight. Of course, I'm glad something is being made at all, it's just not something I want to pay a premium for. I'm happy to spend a premium in other areas for quality bearings, decent quality rubber and mechanical parts etc.

[Colin Lindsay]

19 minutes ago, johny said:

Yes theyre the ones that have the correct hole spacing for fitting bigger calipers to the 2L cars so unfortunately for you making them highly sought after. Hence its worth making them in alloy....

No, as JF says, they're the smaller ones for the earlier cars, NOT the 2-litre versions. These are the caliper brackets that are used to convert from drums to discs on the early four-hole uprights, and as such hard to find. They'll take both type 12 and 14 calipers. I managed to get a set for my early 1200 (even managed to find the rubber seal) but they're not common, certainly not as much as the 2 litre versions. The locking tabs are also available, once you actually find the brackets.

[JumpingFrog]

Unless Johny means the 4-pot Princess calipers, but as far as I know it was never a common conversion. Indeed, the last discussion I found about it on here said they were a waste of time:

Anyway, I was hoping maybe someone broke an upright and switched to later-style uprights and has the old ones sitting around. Willing to pay a fair price for them of course.

[johny]

Heres from Canleys Alloy Caliper Brackets info:

[There are two types of bracket available, one with Type 12/14 caliper mountings and one with Type 16 caliper mountings. Both types can be interchanged between early Herald and Vitesse/GT6 vertical links to allow different spacings for various brake upgrades.

The Type12/14 brackets have a 3.25" caliper bolt spacing, Type 16 is 3.5"]

They also do a big brake kit and it looks like their 4 pot alloy caliper uses the type 12/14 bracket....

[DanMi]

Just to make it harder the MK2 spit used the later integral upright or at least did by 1966 in fact fitted from to FC15575 so only on early MK1 had the adaptor 

[Pete Lewis]

i swaped type 12s for type 16s on the Vit^  but i dont have the removed  and dont remember where they ended up disappearing 

but have looked they are not in my box of historic might be useful parts 

Pete

[foshi]

hi may have some will take a look tomorrow broke a 1600 vitesse and early herald last year , not sure if i kept them paul

[foshi]

had a look hubs discs calliper sorry no spacings 

[Colin Lindsay]

As promised, here's a photo of the two different brake shields - the type 12/ 14 is to the left, later type 16 to the right. They can't be interchanged as the four mounting holes are in different places, and are actually two different sizes on the type 16 shield. The cutout for the track rod end is also in a slightly different place and fouls. Later three-mount shield is to the extreme right but doesn't fit the early uprights at all. 

  

Don't forget that for type 14 calipers you need hubs with a chamfered edge, as the bigger calipers will hit the hubs before they ever fit properly. Type 12s are fine with any hub.

 

[Clive]

I sold a pair during covid, fetched about £100 or so. 

Price is driven up as they are used on lotus(+early Caterham?) And sought after as they use the common Ford caliper spacing. 

You could use GT6 brackets  calipers and discs? May be cheaper and indeed better.

[JumpingFrog]

20 hours ago, clive said:

You could use GT6 brackets  calipers and discs? May be cheaper and indeed better.

Luckily, I managed to get a set last week. The main reason for going down this path was that I already have a pair of Type 14 calipers rebuilt with stainless pistons that used to be on another car. And even a set of M1144 pads on the shelf.

As Colin alluded to, finding the correct disc shield could've been hard, but seems I got very lucky.

I think using a Type 16 setup would have been a simpler option. I'm not so concerned about period correctness as long as my modifications are reversible.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[Wagger]

Try Wins International at East Grinstead, West Sussex. Geoff there has many second hand links.