Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Ah. Does the bellhouse locating dowel double as the second plate locater as well? ie go through the plate to the block? 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Ignore all that. I’ve worked it out. panic begins 🥴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Phil C said: Ignore all that. I’ve worked it out. Please explain, we are all on tenterhooks here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Two dowels for the engine plate. one short DP0612 one long DP0616 the longer locates the plate and bellhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 OK, so I have just found a page in the WSM that I was not previously familiar with. Scan attached. Page 1.113 - Engine reconditioning. Fig 13 shows and lists all of the studs, dowels and plugs fitted to the engine block. At the rear of the block, at the top are:- Diag part No. 20 - 3No. 5/16" UNF studs Part No. 139836 Diag Part No. 21 - I No. 3/8" x 1" dowel Part No. DP0616 Fig 12 on page 1.112, shows the studs and the dowel in position, as do other photos throughout the WSM. At the bottom:- Diag part No. 18 - 1 No. 3/8" x 3/4" dowel Part No. DP0612 This agrees with your post above. I assume from the fact that the top dowel is longer it is the one that protrudes to locate the bellhousing, whereas the lower one is just into the backplate. I think your photo shows this. Ian Scan_0122.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, Ian Foster said: I assume from the fact that the top dowel is longer it is the one that protrudes to locate the bellhousing, whereas the lower one is just into the backplate. I think your photo shows this. Thanks Ian, that is the page I was looking at and concluded the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 OK, I assume that you have successfully determined the position of the 3/8" stud. If so and you get round to fitting the clutch today, we will be interested to know whether there is any run-out on the clutch fingers (and the flywheel as well as that could be relevant). Keep us updated and let me know if you want a second pair of eyes/opinion. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Checked the clutch run-out with dial gauge. Varies by 156 thou. It’s only done 1500 miles but I bought it over three years ago! I was going to ask what an acceptable Tolerance would be but I’m guessing this is causing the oscillation of the clutch fork? Could the lack of the dowel bolt have caused this by not loading the clutch evenly?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) The manual says 116thou tolerance measuring from flywheel face to spring tips at a diameter of 1.92". Although we dont known if thats the acceptable tolerance from finger to finger or clutch cover to cover. Interestingly though it also gives a tolerance on the friction plate run out and says, if not true bend it until it is😁 I wonder if the same couldnt be done to the fingers or possibly that they might even themselves out with more miles anyway... Edited September 29, 2023 by johny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) Phil 156 thou is 3.96mm. That's a lot, no wonder the bearing/carrier/fork is wobbling about so much. I'm surprised that didn't pulse through the pedal. Did you measure the runout of the flywheel after you refitted it. Tolerance for that is 0.003" Let me know if you need that cover and plate. Ian Edited September 29, 2023 by Ian Foster update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 sounds like the diaphragm has shifted probably the unit has been dropped at some time check the torque straps around the outer are all straight , not kinked but think its best to change the cover for another Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Phil, I would take up Ian's kind offer that's a big variation. Having said that I bet my cover is just as bad! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 21 minutes ago, Ian Foster said: Did you measure the runout of the flywheel after you refitted it. Tolerance for that is 0.003" Let me know if you need that cover and plate. Ian, Flywheel is spot on. The cover sounds very generous and a good plan. Can I come and collect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted September 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Ian, PM'd contact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted September 29, 2023 Report Share Posted September 29, 2023 Phil It was good to meet you. I hope the clutch cover and plate do the job for you. Ref bearing carriers, Canleys list part No. 143707 for the GT6/Vitesse. As original these would have been bronze. Rimmers also list 143707 for the GT6/Vitesse, but show it as a steel item. Hopefully this is what you have. The T2000/2500 carriers both in original and later (slipper pad) flavours have different part numbers. My old T2000 steel carrier, fitted in error back in the late 1970s measures 49.5mm o/a with the bearing fitted. Might be worth checking against yours. Good luck for the RBRR, I'll be thinking about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 Wow look after those clutch forks😲 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted October 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 On 29/09/2023 at 20:54, Ian Foster said: It was good to meet you. and you Ian, and a massive thank you for your generosity. Thought I would post an update to conclude this issue. Although originally the squeak was the problem it soon became apparent that the issue was a little more serious with the clutch diaphragm run-out exceeding 150 thou and also the alignment of the gearbox - 3/8 dowel bolt. I replaced the clutch (kindly donated by Ian) and the measured run-out reduced to 48 thou. I also replaced the spigot bush as this may have been affected by the previous misaligned gearbox. I put a new pin in the carrier to overcome the wear. On reassembly I ensured I used a 3/8 bolt in the correct hole and tightened it before the remaining 5/16 bolts to ensure correct gearbox alignment. For any doubt I show its location below. I can report the lever no longer oscillates and the slight clutch judder I had on start up has gone. The clutch feels smooth and no squeaking.......although I have only done a 15 mile test run. Very happy 😊 Again a big thank you to everybody who contributed and a special thank you to Ian for donating the replacement clutch! Phil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil C Posted October 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, johny said: Wow look after those clutch forks😲 😳 will be interesting to see if anyone bids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 Don't forget to update us on rbrr😁 Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 good to know the Jobs a good one amazing what a bit of head scratching and perseverance pays dividends including a donated unit amazing bit of team work Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 Phil Really pleased that you have achieved a successful outcome. I think we have all learned about the importance of the lower 3/8" aligning bolt. Mine has a 5/16" bolt in that position, so it will be something to address when I do the clutch swop this winter. Good luck on the RBRR. If the weather gods are kind, you may even to get to drive the fabulous Scottish sections with the roof down. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ian Foster said: think we have all learned about the importance of the lower 3/8" aligning bolt. Don't forget the cover finger variation. I never though about that. It's the only thing that can be causing my chatter noise but not sure I have the energy or place to take the gearbox out. However I might get bored over winter! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Ian Foster said: I think we have all learned about the importance of the lower 3/8" aligning bolt. Mine has a 5/16" bolt in that position, so it will be something to address when I do the clutch swop this winter. Pretty sure I removed what I thought was an over size bolt from this position when swapping my Herald or Spitfire box. So will have to check and replace. I know the set of new bolts I had from Paddocks were all 5/16”... Do we have a reference for this bolt being larger? I can’t find any mention in the parts catalogue or the factory WSM. Not in doubt, just hoping that if it’s important then Triumph would’ve written it down somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 you will realise triumph never write down the one little bit you need to know Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 Yes they like to hide certain details and all I could find was this in the tightening torques section: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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