Martin OD Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 My Vitesse MK1 2 ltr has always had a noisy gearbox and the gear change is a little rough. Not so I need an overhaul but I would like to see if I can improve it. The box has been overhauled in the past. Will changing the oil make much difference. It does have an overdrive. As usual your collective option is sought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 First is the gear lever linkage in prefect condition? This is the part that wears fastest and of course has a direct affect on change smoothness and also noise if 'sizzling'. A change of oil may help a little and is easy to do although wont cure the problem and of course with OD youve got to stick with the recommended oil and no additive. Unfortunately theres different levels of overhauling of gearboxes. The first is to just inspect, replace bearings and synchro rings and return to service. However for many of our units its getting more difficult as larger components are worn so requiring the next level of overhaul to get back the correct tolerances. This needs more knowledge, time and patience from the overhauler plus parts that are no longer available new but is the only way to get the gearbox back nearer to its original condition in terms of noise and operation. Saying all this I suspect all gearboxes are pretty noisy so good sound deadening makes a lot of difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 Just stick to EP90 GL4 and keep it well topped up, it'll help even if it doesn't repair anything. As Johny says check the gear lever linkages under the top cover, worn bushes here can make gear selection difficult. I must have the only totally silent Herald gearbox in the world, but there's not a noise out of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 Wow and its a smooth change is it Colin? If rebuilt, somebody knows what theyre doing - or was very lucky😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 22 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: I must have the only totally silent Herald gearbox in the world, but there's not a noise out of it... I`ve got one in my Herald if that counts, it`s a Spitfire single rail with O/D won on e bay and collected from Devon unseen about 5 years ago for £115. It is perfect and quiet with a working O/D. I was lucky S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 so whats the noise/when/how ?? in all gears ?? , when in neutral ,?? selection like stiring a pudding , notchy, stiff, synchro failing , clashing/crashing a few more clues we can maybe help more Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin OD Posted October 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) Noise is constant and in all gears whether the car is coasting with clutch down or driving. It is not layshaft bearings. My thoughts are the output shaft bearings or the overdrive. Or it might be "just the way it is" and I am being fussy. I am sure it is gearbox and not any other component. The gear change I am sure is mainly synchros and so is internal. The gear change is not bad but I feel could be better. However, I do nurse the changes and not slam it in to save the synchros. If I drive it with the top down the noise goes away.😀😀😀. Or if I turn up the radio. Edited October 5, 2023 by Martin OD More info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 4 hours ago, Martin OD said: My Vitesse MK1 2 ltr has always had a noisy gearbox and the gear change is a little rough. Not so I need an overhaul but I would like to see if I can improve it. The box has been overhauled in the past. Will changing the oil make much difference. It does have an overdrive. As usual your collective option is sought. That is bit like saying, if I change the bandage, it needs changing anyway, as the blood is soaking through, will it get better? Have you done anything on the 'box? Like drain the oil and inspect? I had a noise on the TRansit. I knew it was the diff when I drained that and there were 'silvery bits' in it. A rebuild and new bearings cured it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 Normally synchros depends on the gear with second and third being the worst. The change is never going to be like a modern but should be able to go through smoothly just slower. For running noise you could remove the cover, carefully run the car in gear on axle stands and listen with a large screwdriver to your ear at various points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, johny said: Wow and its a smooth change is it Colin? If rebuilt, somebody knows what theyre doing - or was very lucky😊 I rebuilt the linkage, new bushes and replaced any worn bits so selection is easy, but on driving, not a sound. Nothing was done to the internals bar a good clean (washed out with petrol!) then refilled with oil. Come to think of it, my GT6 box made no noises either, only the overdrive whined a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 there is little load on the rear mainshaft brg, they last , the input shaft relies more on oil level if its low then the front is the first to give up then whine in all gears and when idling mainshaft tip failure goes quiet when in 4th as for synchro if theres been years of clashing then the chamfer on the dog teeth gets chimbled and then synchro will never revive as whats known as rock over fails and the baulk ring lets go halfway through a change theres a lot to look for when contemplating a rebuild it can cost a fortune and have little gain trouble is decent Core is getting hard to source pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin OD Posted October 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 The oil level was low as the overdrive didn't work. When I topped it up recently the overdrive started to work so there might something in the input shaft bearing theory. I didn't need to put much oil in it but it was enough. I am having a second opinion about the noisy gearbox from another nearby vitesse Owner so I will see after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 new oil will never stop a noisy gearbox, if it is unusually noisy there is wear, even if that noise was due to low oil there will still be wear, new oil may diminish the noise but long term the wear is still there and getting worse all the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin OD Posted October 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 I took my car to an experienced a Triumph friend who listened to my gearbox and he agreed it was a bit noisy but didn't think it sounded to bad. I will probably change the oil anyway as I don't know if it has ever been changed but I am not so worried now. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 Seems like a plan! The noise you want to listen out for if increasing is produced underload in the first 3 gears as this will be from one of the needle roller bearings. These run direct on main geabox components and can generate noise for quite a while but need to be repaired before major damage occurs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 gear oil doesnt degrade with contaminants like engine oil does, there will be particles of wear and tear but they tend to sink in the bottom and dont circulate much as you think the OD (both J and D and A ) do have a filter that needs an occasional clean as this traps worn lining materials from entering the pump but gear oil tends to stay clear and clean you could try a EP140 makes thinks quiet but i dont hold out the synchro will cope with it . and the OD would be very lazy (designed to run on engine oil but triumph gearboxes wont like it ) hence they spec EP90 GL4 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 I wouldn't use EP140 on gears; diff yes, but not the gearbox. I have both EP140 and EP90 for both units but the 140 never goes near the gearbox. I was in an Agricultural Supplies recently and they were selling 5 litre containers of the stuff, EP140 GL4, so no more pilgrimages to James Paddock in Chester. That amount should last me a decade or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 Had two teeth come off third gear on the cluster a good few years back, Vitesse 2L, and sourced a cluster and third gear from Mike Papworth. The third gear was NOS but cluster was refurbished with the needle roller bearing surface renewed by having sleeves inserted. As said a good few years ago and can only imagine the supply situation being worse. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 8, 2023 Report Share Posted October 8, 2023 the idea of trialing ep140 was to trial not any long term usage (its not a recommendation ) as the synchro and OD will complain but it may just show noise improvement and leads to needing a refurb in the future Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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