Fuel pump repair

[cliff.b]

9 minutes ago, johny said:

I think its getting it to seal which is the hard part and glue isnt really a good solution for a manufacturer...

I agree, but both the new ones I have bought from different suppliers are like that so I suspect all the new ones probably are. They do vary a bit on price though so perhaps some are better. I suppose an option would be to find an original pump from an older car and do away with the spacer/gasket. Or, as suggested, go electric.

Edited April 1 by cliff.b
Add text

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, johny said:

Yes but are they 1500 Spitfires Pete? As so often Triumph found a cheaper alternative😁

1 is definitely 13/60, the other was said to be a 1300 Spit, engine and O/D gearbox. retero fitted some years ago.

Currently playing silly beggers, starts and runs then cuts out, pump is providing fuel, pumped about 1/2 litre into a can before lunch, decent spark too. Ran fine yesterday, hence my asking how much fuel is below the pickup?. As the tank has been out recently and only just on a gallon went back it. Might get another gallon just to check?.

Pete

[johny]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

I agree, but both the new ones I have bought from different suppliers are like that so I suspect all the new ones probably are. They do vary a bit on price though so perhaps some are better. I suppose an option would be to find an original pump from an older car and do away with the spacer/gasket. Or, as suggested, go electric.

trouble with an original pump is the valves and diaphragm will be flagging unless renewed...

[johny]

30 minutes ago, PeteH said:

1 is definitely 13/60, the other was said to be a 1300 Spit, engine and O/D gearbox. retero fitted some years ago.

Currently playing silly beggers, starts and runs then cuts out, pump is providing fuel, pumped about 1/2 litre into a can before lunch, decent spark too. Ran fine yesterday, hence my asking how much fuel is below the pickup?. As the tank has been out recently and only just on a gallon went back it. Might get another gallon just to check?.

Pete

if the pump provides fuel surely all must be ok in tank?

[cliff.b]

22 minutes ago, johny said:

trouble with an original pump is the valves and diaphragm will be flagging unless renewed...

Yes. I have had no problems with the pump itself so will probably leave as is for now but keeping a an eye on it.

[andybeau]

57 minutes ago, PeteH said:

1 is definitely 13/60, the other was said to be a 1300 Spit, engine and O/D gearbox. retero fitted some years ago.

Currently playing silly beggers, starts and runs then cuts out, pump is providing fuel, pumped about 1/2 litre into a can before lunch, decent spark too. Ran fine yesterday, hence my asking how much fuel is below the pickup?. As the tank has been out recently and only just on a gallon went back it. Might get another gallon just to check?.

Pete

Definitely 13/60, here's a pic of mine 

 

Edited April 1 by andybeau

[PeteH]

I am racking my brains trying to think what if anything has changed from yesterday. Even went down the garage for another gallon of "go go juice", still start`s runs and then cut`s out. The P-O (Jeff) has fitted an inline filter, which looks clean/ok, do wonder if it has picked up some crap and is part of the issue? Similar to:-

Might order one of these instead?

Pete

[Chris A]

21 minutes ago, PeteH said:

The P-O (Jeff) has fitted an inline filter

Where did he fit it? I assume before the pump to stop muck getting to it.

I have one of those cheapo plastic ones, works fine. I change it when the plastic starts to get a bit 'foggy'. If you loke bling then go for the chrome posh version.

[johny]

Filter has to be really, really bad to block up especially when engine running no load and anyway it pumps fuel doesnt it? How long does it run for?

[Pete Lewis]

pump performance does also  rely on no air leaks from hose connections .

Pete

[PeteH]

The only thing I`ve done since yesterday, apart from lowering the car back down off the stands after I had topped up the diff; Is go round with a socket and check/tighten the hose clips, after having disconnected the fuel line to the carb; inlet to test the pump was supplying fuel?. It will fast idle for up to a minute or longer then dies?. I`ll try bleeding it though again in the morning. And see how that goes with the battery now on charge overnight.

Pete

[cliff.b]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

The only thing I`ve done since yesterday, apart from lowering the car back down off the stands after I had topped up the diff; Is go round with a socket and check/tighten the hose clips, after having disconnected the fuel line to the carb; inlet to test the pump was supplying fuel?. It will fast idle for up to a minute or longer then dies?. I`ll try bleeding it though again in the morning. And see how that goes with the battery now on charge overnight.

Pete

When it dies, you could consider immediately opening up a float chamber to see if it is dry. If so then obviously fuel, if not then look elsewhere.

[Morgana]

Does the pump get hot being attached to the engine? Epoxy resins like Araldite usually 'let go' around 60C.

One possibility would be to thread both parts with a parallel pipe thread and fibre washer for the seal at the bottom of the recess. With the pressures involved a fuel-resistant dowty washer would likely not be necessary. A tapered thread hosetail would lock against a parallel female thread, but I would not think alloy would be suitable for that method.

Depending on what the bottom of the recess looks like, perhaps an olive connection could seal there?

Any mechanical method would seem better to me than a doubtful adhesive! 🤔

[cliff.b]

1 hour ago, Morgana said:

Does the pump get hot being attached to the engine? Epoxy resins like Araldite usually 'let go' around 60C.

One possibility would be to thread both parts with a parallel pipe thread and fibre washer for the seal at the bottom of the recess. With the pressures involved a fuel-resistant dowty washer would likely not be necessary. A tapered thread hosetail would lock against a parallel female thread, but I would not think alloy would be suitable for that method.

Depending on what the bottom of the recess looks like, perhaps an olive connection could seal there?

Any mechanical method would seem better to me than a doubtful adhesive! 🤔

Unlike all the earlier engines the later 1500 had a thick spacing washer between the fuel pump and the block which I believe was to reduce heat transfer. Not sure how hot it gets through. Perhaps worth investigating.

Can anyone confirm if the original pump for this engine had screwed in pipework, like the earlier cars, or if it was always like the modern replacement pumps?

[PeteH]

1 hour ago, Morgana said:

Does the pump get hot being attached to the engine? Epoxy resins like Araldite usually 'let go' around 60C.

One possibility would be to thread both parts with a parallel pipe thread and fibre washer for the seal at the bottom of the recess. With the pressures involved a fuel-resistant dowty washer would likely not be necessary. A tapered thread hosetail would lock against a parallel female thread, but I would not think alloy would be suitable for that method.

Depending on what the bottom of the recess looks like, perhaps an olive connection could seal there?

Any mechanical method would seem better to me than a doubtful adhesive! 🤔

Both the ones I posted pic`s of earlier have screwed fittings , If one wished to go that option it should be relatively easy to fit a suitable hose tail to a Tapped top casing?. Being "old school" I would be thinking 1/8 or 1/4"BSP as I have the taps and dies to hand.

Regarding my issue of Run and Die?. I await supply of new Filters. before a further investigation there being an outside chance the existing one has become brittle and cracked.

Pete

[johny]

48 minutes ago, cliff.b said:

Unlike all the earlier engines the later 1500 had a thick spacing washer between the fuel pump and the block which I believe was to reduce heat transfer. Not sure how hot it gets through. Perhaps worth investigating.

Can anyone confirm if the original pump for this engine had screwed in pipework, like the earlier cars, or if it was always like the modern replacement pumps?

Canleys original drawing show plumbed in pipes in the pump. If using a non standard pump with screwed connections you would have to be careful that its operating arm is correct as these vary between car types.

I see theres very little meat on Cliffs pump, especially the inlet, to start tapping for a threaded connection😞

[cliff.b]

4 hours ago, johny said:

Canleys original drawing show plumbed in pipes in the pump. If using a non standard pump with screwed connections you would have to be careful that its operating arm is correct as these vary between car types.

I see theres very little meat on Cliffs pump, especially the inlet, to start tapping for a threaded connection😞

It is true that there isn't a lot of metal there and I'm not sure what the metal is. Possibly finest "chinesium" ☺️