uprate rear brakes

[djn]

Hi, Does anyone know where I could get "fast road" or "competition" lined rear brake shoes for a spitfire 1500.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TomL]

I would suggest giving Jigsaw a call.

 

Tom

[Clive]

a while ago somebody made noises about relining shoes in 1144 material, that would be ideal. Not sure what happened with it though. 

NOS asbestos shoes also have a much better friction coefficient than modern materials (if you are happy that you can cope with asbestos shoes and take a few sensible precautions when working on them. I do)

[dougbgt6]

I think you have to be careful about unbalancing the braking system. My car has the servo on the front wheels only, earlier models have it on all four. The difference is that they upgraded the rear brakes on my model and decided that this unbalanced four wheel servo braking. I've tried my servo on all four and braking is definitely best with servo on front wheels only. So what I'm saying is it's very easy to unbalance the braking system. As for asbestos,    ​ there are easier ways to kill yourself.

[Clive]

But the point is 95% of current brake linings are nowhere near as good as the old asbestos ones. So a simple upgrade is to go back in time to when asbestos brakes were fitted. The nearest (and probably a tad better) lining is mintex 1144.

 

I agree overbraking the rear is dangerous. But I suspect the OP has upgraded the fronts. And there is a huge array of good front pads, but the rears are often forgotten about.

 

Of course, the other option is to fit vitesse/GT6 rear brakes. 

[dougbgt6]

No Clive, the point is asbestos is dangerous and you shouldn't be using it.

[Clive]

If you insist, I shall ask the question.

How many people contracted asbestos related disease from brake dust over the all the decades it was fitted to every single car, lorry and motorcycle in the UK?  And also that (at an estimate) about 50% of triumphs still have asbestos clutches fitted? How many people just take a gearbox off and don't wash the bellhousing and parts within off carefully? I do.

The only info I could find in my recent research indicated a handful of garage mechanics worldwide (mainly brake fitters who did the job day in day out) contracted the disease.

Please, I won't to be drawn into a useless dispute. All I am saying is that asbestos brake linings are superior to modern versions. That is a fact.

And as an aside, if a few simple precautions are taken then the risk of asbestos related disease is negligible, as in approaching zero. The risk of being hit by lightning is greater.

[djn]

Thanks for the replies. 1144 lined shoes would be ideal. I already have Mintex 1144 pads up front. (2.5 engine, gt6 front brakes)

[dougbgt6]

Strangely enough I've discussed the asbestos situation with my MP. (I was cleaning out my rear brake drums, she was canvasing and admired my car, well she would wouldn't she?) She thought it would be easy enough to get brake pad/shoe inspection added to the MOT. Didn't think about clutches at the time and then there's "health and safety" of the MOT man to consider.

[Pete Lewis]

and if we back pedal the emissions to comply with later  rules the cars would  all be off the road as unable to meet the regs. 

 

thats solves the H &S on brakes ,

 

 risk assessment ,   if we fitted friendly cardboard linings we are less hazardous but sorry when crashed into the car in front  

     we wont have  achieved much .

 

if there any stats out there i wonder how many had asbestos related problems from living at the bottom of porlock or Countisbury hills

where you could smell the burnt linings in the air 

 

i can guess there loads of pros and cons on this subject 

 

Pete

[Clive]

Strangely enough I've discussed the asbestos situation with my MP. (I was cleaning out my rear brake drums, she was canvasing and admired my car, well she would wouldn't she?) She thought it would be easy enough to get brake pad/shoe inspection added to the MOT. Didn't think about clutches at the time and then there's "health and safety" of the MOT man to consider.

That would be unworkable. They would need to take a sample and send it off to a lab for analysis. That would cost more than the actual MoT. I suspect the MP knew nothing about asbestos testing ( I used to do it for a job when I worked in an analysis lab, in between testing waitrose fresh pasta and the local tap water on behalf of the county council ) 

Garage workers are expose dto far greater dangers on a daily basis. Used engine oil is VERY nasty. Dusts of any sort are a health hazard. Many of the organic solvents are terrible. Remember when they used Benzine on burns? And yet we are all told to be paranoid about some things that in actual fact are harmless in the real world. I did test on mercury, even testing over a mercury bath I got zero readings for mercury vapour, but the H+S rules are very strict on it. And remember fish and chips wrapped in newspaper? Yep, the print was carcinogenic, probably still is. There are nasty things all around us all the time. Including the Sun...though that also helps with vitamin production. 

[Clive]

Thanks for the replies. 1144 lined shoes would be ideal. I already have Mintex 1144 pads up front. (2.5 engine, gt6 front brakes)

You could try contacting Mintex? or one of their representatives. Or maybe Garth in the club shop. The trouble is that few people really appreciate the benefits of using better brake linings and are willing to pay for them

 

Another alternative is to fit rear discs. Been done using MGF discs, and callipers (though I would be tempted to use VW callipers as they are alloy and much lighter if I were to be doing it again)

[Colin Lindsay]

Wheeler Dealers recently used Kevlar shoes on an old Volvo and reckoned they performed far better than the originals, although in truth anything was better than the originals.... 

[Pete Lewis]

Were the shoes lace ups or slip on's

[dougbgt6]

"Yep, the print was carcinogenic"  People still say clean your windows with vinegar water and rub with newspaper. Totally useless advice as newsprint isn't what it used to be.  

 

My MP has a degree in geography so possibly doesn't know too much about asbestos, still she is a forceful and determined woman and lack of knowledge is not a barrier to progress in the modern political world. She certainly scares the life out of me!

 

I buy Waitrose pasta what's lhe low down?

[Clive]

Don't get me started on politicians. 

They have a nasty tendency to say what they think people want to hear, rather than have the b4lls to say and do what is long-term best for us. Bah. As for the ones who have never had a proper job, they are just idealists. I guess a minimum requirement would be to have had X number of years working in whatever field (not important what) and good references plus been successful. Then an apprenticeship as local councillors (two edged sword, some learn how to be incompetent there, others are fantastic) and only then be considered for higher offices. What an old git I am becoming.

 

The lab work was a lifetime ago, the fresh pasta was a new product from a new supplier. And the troublesome fact was the pasta had been sold by the time I submitted my results (it took 3 days to grow the little bacteria on the agar plates)

 

Initial results were horrific! An order of magnitude or 2 higher than acceptable to sell (but it had been!) but to be fair after a few weeks they got the results down to "safe" levels, and no reports of problems. I guess the safe limits were very safe. And after the samples from the production line workers were analysed(!) it turned out they generally needed to improve their hygiene. Grubby bunch. You would want to wash your hands if you met one and shook their hand.

 

These days things will be much better. But I do worry about the obsession with anti-bac sprays, over-cleanliness and so on. A ticking timebomb that is bound to lead to more super-bugs that we won't be able to "fix"

[JohnD]

Back to the subject.

 

Road & Stage Motorsport, Morecambe can get rear brake shoes relined with Mintex. I'm on my tablet or I would post a link, but Google for them and give the lovely Julie a ring.

 

John

[Pete Lewis]

Heck sure ive breathed asbestos and eaten pasta,s, we're doomed , we're dooooomed

 

does this explain .......senior moments ??

 

 

John is this right

http://www.rsmmotorsport.co.uk/

 

pete

[djn]

Thanks again for varied replies,

 

I have emailed http://www.rsmmotorsport.co.uk/ I will let you know their response.

 

DJN

[JohnD]

Asbestosis (Lung fibrosis that stops you breathing) and mesothelioma (a lung cancer) are diseases we rarely see today.    Like typhoid, whooping cough, Diphtheria and many other diseases that public health has almost abolished, they have lost their terror and people treat them as trivial.    And so we get outbreaks of, say, measles, like the mini-epidemic in Swansea in 2013.       Measles, you say, Pah!    A trivial disease - and you are so wrong.   It kills 2-3% of those who catch it, can cause blindness, swelling of the brain, deafness and pneumonia.  In the Swansea outbreak a man did die, although he was already ill, and the lack of other deaths was due to good medical care.

 

In the same way, the industrial diseases of asbestosis that were rife before the 1980s when laws were passed in many countries to control its use, have been forgotten - because public health has stopped them happening.    

 

You're not doomed, but you could be unlucky.  Asbestosis is a disease that usually affects those who have used the stuff for a long time, but mesothelioma can occur after trivial exposure, and only occurs with asbestos.   I know of a farmer who died of the tumour and his only traceable exposure was to build a barn roof with asbestos.    To strive to use asbestos brake linings is perverse, when modern ones are so good,and to treat it as safe in small quantities just silly.

 

John

John

[dougbgt6]

Well said John.

 

You forgot to mention TB which is also on the rise and with antibiotics becoming less and less effective we are, as Pete says, DOOOOMED!

[scooter]

You have a vastly higher risk of contracting skin cancer from old engine oil than you ever have contracting measothelioma from asbestos brakes.

Do you fill your car up with unleaded petrol? It contains Benzene, an agressive carcinogen that you breath in in large quantities while filling up.

 

The issue with brake fitters was down to using airlines to blow dust out of the brakes constantly, day in, day out that put large quantities of asbestos dust into the working environment they were breathing in every hour of their working day.

 

Very simple precautions remove any risk to infinitesimal.

 

Wash out the brakes with brake cleaner rather than brush or blow out the dust, use a dust mask.

 

They have still to find a superior material than asbestos for brake linings. Some of the synthetics have a higher friction rating, but they are scary expensive, they wear at a frightening rate and destroy disks with equal rapidity.

[dougbgt6]

So Scooter, Don't touch old engine oil, don't breath in while filling up, don't use asbestos brakes?

[scooter]

So Scooter, Don't touch old engine oil, don't breath in while filling up, don't use asbestos brakes?

I was exposed to asbestos in huge quantities during my time in the Merchant Navy lagging boilers and pipes, 40 years on, nothing.

It's really an overrated issue for brakes. I actively source nos asbestos brake pads and shoes, they are vastly better than repro ones.

 

Do you decarbon your own engine using scrapers and such like? Really nasty stuff that carbon, full of nasties. Commercially, you would dip the head to remove it and treat the residue as hazardous waste.

[Pete Lewis]

Everthing we eat is dangerous or alledgedly unhealthy, until they change the plan every 10, years

to reverse the previous bright idea's on what we should or shouldnt consume

so adding a bit of airbourne contamination be it pollen or nasties of modern world polutants just means ,if you dont breathe or eat at least you would die healthy.