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Herald 13/60 diff 6 or 4 studs?


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About to fit a 3.89 GT6 diff to my 1968 13/60 herald. I noticed that the Herald diff has 46 studs holding the spring to the diff, the GT6 on has 4 studs. Do I need 6 or will4 do? If I need 6 I can drill and tap the diff housing but wonder if I need to?

BTW the herald has  a 1500 engine and OD gearbox, I will change the drive shaft flanges to fit the larger output flanges on the new diff.

cheers

mike

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Hi

The photo is of my recently rebuilt 13/60 rear. It came with the "Swing Spring", so may be different to yours, however as you can see it has only 4 studs, the diff (mine) is already drilled and tapped for 6 studs. But 4 would seem to be adequate?

BTW. Surely fitting a 3.89 diff, will make it very "long legged". especially with an O/d Box?.

IMG_5695.JPG

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You could swap the back case too, once the quarter shafts are out, it is easy enough. Gives you the chance to have a good look and clean it thoroughly too, even install a drain plug.....

 

But you could just use four studs.I have in the past, but I do worry about the flat herald spring plate, they can fracture. The humped swing-spring  plates never seem to have an issue.

3.89 will work very well. Remember the spit 1500 had a 3.63, dolly 1500 initially had 3.89 and late ones 3.63. Then again John Kipping reckoned the 4.11 with od on a 1500 worked very well. So 3.89 is the safest bet!

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 when stuck on converting  my Vit6 from a swinger spring and  diff case back  to a fixed spring i just battery drilled two 8.3mm holes about 1" deep and tapped 3/8x24  unf   they didnt break through the casting 

used the 6 hole plate and a drop plate to act as a alignment jig , add the studs and easy job .

Pete

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2 hours ago, clive said:

I presume you have checked that the herald diff has the larger quarter shafts? If not the shafts nor case will swap!

The numbers are here for reference
https://www.canleyclassics.com/technical-archive/different-differentials/

Not yet. Have taken off the drive shafts and am now ready to get the diff out. Its a very early 1968 Herald 13/60 and I don't think the diff has ever been out....
I was planning to change the UJ flanges on the drive shafts rather than change the quarter shafts (I have some spare UJ flanges and want to change the UJ's). But will decide once I have everything on the garage floor.
So far everything has been tight but has come to pieces but I am not looking forward to removing the 2 rear bolts holding the diff onto the chassis...
I am out today so that will be tomorrow fun!

I have a growing list of bits, bolts, and stuff that will need replacing. While its  all off the car I will strip down and overhaul the rear brakes.
In the last few years the Herald has really suffered from a lack of maintenance, now that the TR6 has gone and I am down to 1 Triumph it can have some TLC.
Its not too bad as its just passed its MOT (unlike my daughters 2006 Focus that needs a new sill....).

cheers

mike

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1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

 when stuck on converting  my Vit6 from a swinger spring and  diff case back  to a fixed spring i just battery drilled two 8.3mm holes about 1" deep and tapped 3/8x24  unf   they didnt break through the casting 

used the 6 hole plate and a drop plate to act as a alignment jig , add the studs and easy job .

Pete

Pete

Curious, why did you change from a swinger spring back to a fixed spring?

cheers
Mike

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Mike, a good few fit a swinger and whatever but this is what i found 

 this was on a saloon it was a canley kit for vitesse .she was  often 4 up and boot full of chairs etc, and the swinger was always bottoming the shockers , had to cut the shroud off and remove 2 of the 3 bump rings inside to get some travel 

this just meant it got lower, ended up with 10 deg neg camber and no upward ride travel.  but lots of roll on roundabouts  , more boat  than sports car

ended  up with a courier spring and 1" drop plate............  now its on rails 

the 4 hole diff came about as recon diff was aimed at having a swinger box, , fitting the courier i felt 6  studs were as designed so 6 it got 

Pete

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Well that was much easier than expected! Bolts came out of the diff mounts easily, very tight but with a decent socket they came undone, studs out and diff is now on the garage floor. The old diff has the small square front flange (5/16 bolt holes on front flange) on it.
To refit the new one I will have to change the UJ flange on the propshaft and the UJ flanges on the drive shafts.

One question about the propshaft, the sliding joint is at the rear of the car. If I mark the rotary position of the sliding joint and undo the knucked ring, can I pull the sliding part off? I know I could try this but thought I would ask on here first as I am not under the car! if so this would save having to take the gearbox cover off and remove the propshaft just to change the rear UJ flange.
Originally the car had a strap type prop shaft then a not OD Vitesse one (with the engine moved forward a bit) when I fitted the OD gearbox. Could never get it to run with out vibrating so brought the correct length one, from I think Canley.

BTW I have never changed the diff oil just topped it up (over 15 years). It smells very burnt and is a rather nasty black colour.... I am thinking that it might be worth adding a drain hole in the casing.

cheers

Mike

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Be a bit careful about drilling the casing, any (drilling) detritus  will adversely affect the Gears. I had mine out, so merely placed it on a tray with the Filler at the lowest point and left it overnight. Unless you really want to change the oil at regular intervals a fresh charge now will likely last many years. Or invest in one of these. ?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/231977958445?chn=ps&adgroupid=54300448927&rlsatarget=pla-398490660936&abcId=1130076&adtype=pla&merchantid=7334984&poi=&googleloc=1006816&device=c&campaignid=1029942144&crdt=0

Can double for drawing Hydraulic fluid through brake systems after a rebuild too.

 

Pete

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If people consider trying to suck the oil out of the differential via the filler hole be aware that the pipe needs to turn through 90 degrees as soon as it enters the casing. The clearance between the inside of the casing and the internal gubbins of the diff' at the location of the filler is so small that the only hose narrow enough to turn the corner and reach down to the bottom of the casing is screen washer hose or something similar. Do it when the oil is warm or it takes ages! I've attached a picture of what I've made to do the job. It cost about £1.

Wayne

 

IMG_1367.JPG

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Thanks Wayne. I have been thinking about doing this but now I'm not so sure that removing the back plate off might not be a better option. I'm not sure how much gunk to expect and washer pipe is pretty thin and might not remove the sludge

What are others thoughts 're this?

Aidan

 

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3 hours ago, Waynebaby said:

If people consider trying to suck the oil out of the differential via the filler hole be aware that the pipe needs to turn through 90 degrees as soon as it enters the casing. The clearance between the inside of the casing and the internal gubbins of the diff' at the location of the filler is so small that the only hose narrow enough to turn the corner and reach down to the bottom of the casing is screen washer hose or something similar. Do it when the oil is warm or it takes ages! I've attached a picture of what I've made to do the job. It cost about £1.

Wayne

 

IMG_1367.JPG

We had a river cruiser until recently and I still have a suction system to empty the oil from the engine and I can use this to empty the diff oil! 
Thanks for the ideas!

Mike

 

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