6 cylinder rocker shaft end caps, removal

[daverclasper]

Hi.

Rocker cover off today to sort a noisy tappet (Thanks for feeler tip, with engine running Pete Lewis, worked a treat).

I did notice  that the first 6 rockers did not have oil dribbling out of the top holes (in the past there was none coming from 2,3 and 4 rockers, so this has got worse).

There is oil between the valves and rockers and it pools in the recesses at the top of the push rod holes on the top of the head.

Engine has good oil pressure, according to the gauge so assuming it's sludge in shaft.

Should I be bothered by this as maybe getting worse and clean out the shaft. If so the end caps look like they a held by some sort of pin, that looks like the tops have maybe been peened, though  a bit difficult to see.

I gather engine flush not a great idea (and would it clean the shaft) on an old engine that appears to have some sludge deposits and can disturb and  block passageways ?.

Any help great, thanks,

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

yes its a mills pin   500975 , it should punch out ok.  you  can use a split pin if you wreck it    

a roll pin would work and easier to source   

what gets choked is the hole from the bore scroll to the head of the rocker 

if you strip it down photo or sketch which way each  handed rocker and springs / washers  faces 

if the shaft is stuffed they only seem to sell shafts for  mk2 engines  its too long and needs some careful modifications to fit one,  the end cap for the ils way has to be tapped and a setscrew and washer used to replace the mk2 end caps 

got that tee shirt   mk 1 shaft is  204736  not 214562   ( mk2 )shown by some 

Pete

[Gadgetman]

I got a 1600 one from James Paddock, for interest the ones at that place near Lincoln were undersize, worse than the worn one I took out!

Paddocks were spot on size.

http://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/rocker-shaft-16002-litre-mk1-3

 

[daverclasper]

Thanks a lot. Maybe a silly question, but could the mills pins be tapped out with shaft in situ, and shaft successfully cleaned?.

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

you wont remove all the rockers without stripping the shaft down  as the pedestals will be in the way 

if you only want to remove an end rocker , well suppose it will tap out with a hard punch but i would suggest you give it a full overhaul 

and check all the rocker scrolls and feed holes .

pete

 

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete.  A sooner, rather than later job?.  I have a few longer mileage trips planned in next couple of months.

Thanks, Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

yes better to do it fully when the suns gone in

Pete

[Gully]

I had a similar problem with my GT6, albeit with only one dry rocker - made the decision to change the rocker shaft and didn't regret it as the one I removed was quite heavily scored. The replacement came from Moss, complete with end caps.

Gully

[daverclasper]

Thanks.

Think I might attempt this soon, as don't have to use the car for a few days. Only ever worked on OHC heads before, so some questions please.

I understand the pedestal nuts have to be undone a bit at a time, I assume because of valve spring tension. No mention of doing them up like this?.

Also, can those end cap pins be tapped our from either end (of the pin) or are they tapered etc?.

Was thinking, soak the rockers in petrol, then flush with brake cleaner, a bit of firking about with wire if needed?.

Any snags I should prepare for as need to turn it over asap.

Any help great, thanks

Dave 

[NonMember]

I always tighten them a bit at a time, concentrating on the ones that are opening valves first, if you see what I mean.

I've not done the end caps so I'll leave that to someone else.

[Pete Lewis]

Part list calls it a Mills pin  these are a parallel hard pin some have a small groove to let air out in  solid blind holes

It should punch out either way, as I said its ok to use a split pin of the right size if a replacement is needed it does not take a lot of loading

These pins can be quite tight ,   I say split pin as if a refitted  mills  is a bit used /loose it can fall out   and thats trouble 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks Pete and non member. Very useful.

Hopefully straightforward!.

Dave

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by daverclasper

[daverclasper]

Hi. I assume the end cap seals the oil further in than holes for pin, therefore would the split pins used on the front wheel bearings be ok ?(Vitesse engine).

thanks, Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

no idea it needs to be a nice fit not  loose ,  the oil sealing is probably why its  solid pin ??

im sure the old pin will work ok 

Pete

 

[daverclasper]

Hi.  Are the toes of the cam lobes/contact with followers, lubed only by oil from the rockers running back down the pushrod holes please.

Thanks, Dave

[NonMember]

The cam lobes are splash lubricated. Some of that is what runs down the side of the followers but there's some general oil mist in the surrounding area from the big ends flailing around.

[daverclasper]

Hi gadgetman. Did your end caps come off easily?. If I need to replace them for any reason, then I can only see Vit Mk 2  ones, that are a different part no.

Thanks, Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

Canley have them to order 104838  £5.10 

Dont think you need to worry too much about doing this , it should just tap off,  or fall off

Pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete.

Dave

[daverclasper]

It escaped me on canley site. I don't think it shows up on the parts diagram for 2 Litre ( or maybe it was me). Yes, it's on Vitesse 6 diagram.

Thanks again.

Dave

[daverclasper]

Hi. Probably being over cautious here, though in the factory WS manual for rocker shaft fitment, it says something like. " Screw in the rocker adjuster screws fully before fitting, to avoid possibility of bending pushrods and tighten each pedestal nut a bit at a time". I assume to take load of the shaft?.

Is this necessary?.

Thanks, Dave  

    

[Pete Lewis]

Dave   I would read that to unscrew to increase the tappet gap before fitting  but as you are not replacing rockers just cleaning oilways 

Its not anything to bother about,  just do your tappet gap checks on finishing off.

Yes pull the pedestals down evenly locate all the tappet screws in the push rods as you, go.

Do keep all rockers and pushrods  in their original places they all wear and bed in to each other    so best kept as matched pairs

Pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete.

Dave

[daverclasper]

Hi. Have got one end cap off (which I'm assuming is enough to clean shaft) and stripped the shaft. The cap pin is disintegrating a bit and left some swarf behind, so I will not re-use.

I have a split pin that when fitted, is not loose as such, due to the outward tension, though when the split is closed up it will wiggle side to side a bit (I'm guessing about 15 thou. Does it need to be a better fit than this? (going by, quite a bit of oil dribbles out of rocker holes normally, would this drop oil pressure much).

Also, wear on shaft, on all rocker areas, the most is 9 thou. Would this affect efficient valve operation much?. The engine is quiet when running.

Also, eleven of the push rods have a slight flat on the top ball, except one?.

Any help great please.

Cheers, Dave

Ps. On further examination of of shaft/rockers (not cleaned yet), all oil holes appear clear. Could the wear on shaft, also possible wear on the rocker bores cause a loss off oil pressure, causing less oil passage further up the shaft?.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

with more ways for the limited supply to escape then yes oil supply to the  front end is going to deteriorate

theres not a lot of pressure as the supply up the rear pedestal is not full flow but limited by a flat on the cam bearing to give a squirt once every cam revolution

if you have 0.009" shaft wear thats nearly as much as the desired clarance  so a new shaft is needed here.

the rockers are probably not worn as much in the bore as the shaft is harder and that takes the wear .

you can stone or emery the pads to remove the ridge which affects the feeler entry , leave the valve contact zone as is.

the flat on the base of the push rod spherical  is normal for oil retention   do keep push rods with their matched follower and tappet screw as theyb are all bedded in to each other 

Pete

Pete