Bfg Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 15 hours ago, PeteH said: 👍 Made literally hundreds of Pipe Flange joints with the same process often using Graphited sheet "jointing" material, small ball peen hammer produces a pattern and on the thinner stuff even a cut. Pete. "literally hundreds" huh ..so why not just buy / have in a stock of gaskets ? Surely making them individually is a false economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 19 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: ... but i prefer stuff like Loctite 574 and dump the gasket for any face to face surfaces ( providing the gasket is not of any dimensional significance ) used on trials to solve truck oil leaks and it was head and shoulders better than any other stuff we tested, so was made a permanent production process when it goes solid it needs a tap or a lever to split the joint but you are oil free {Pete I wouldn't.. I have never used Loctite 574, but my experience with other gasket goo's ..applied in this quantity - is in rebuilding engines ..from where an oil way had been blocked by a blob of such goo squeezing out from the mating face, and that bead (usually after some time) dropping into the circulating oil. The Sunbeam motorcycles, I professionally restored, have an oil-way drilling from the rear main bearing up through the block and then cylinder-head to the camshaft. Yes even in 1946 it was designed with an overhead cam. And just where the oil way entered the rear of the camshaft a blob of sealant might easily stop the flow and the camshaft would soon be destroyed (see photo below). If a smaller blob got passed that first obstacle, then inevitably it would end up inside the rocker-arm tube to block one of the jets to the cam lobes. My TR's gearbox shares its oil with the overdrive unit ..which again has fine oil-way drillings that are easily blocked. Although there is a filter in the pick up, I am assured that the usual cause of an over-drive failure (necessitating it to be rebuilt or replaced) is one of its oil-ways getting blocked. I'm simply not prepared to take the risk Overview description of Loctite 574 says it has "a high oil tolerance". Sorry but in my opinion a high 'tolerance' to oil is not good enough inside a gearbox or engine. Conversely, it goes on to say "excellent water and glycol resistance" which implies where it may be most useful. But then again, I very quickly made a new gasket for the water pump on the TR ..after all it just has three mounting bolts, so why would I want to use this stuff ? At the best part of £30 (inc VAT) for just 50ml - I can't see it as a cost effective solution. Aside from which I'd have to order and wait for it, so why not instead just buy the correct gasket for far less money.? Sorry Peter, but your professional experience may persuade you otherwise ..but I'll not encourage the less-experienced reader of these pages to try such a shortcut. If they were to home-make a gasket and it leaked a little, then that's one thing ..but it'll not be a disaster. Conversely, if an engine, gearbox, or overdrive is damaged ..due goo being used over zealously, well then I think that would be something else all together. Just my opinion you understand. "it needs a tap or a lever to split the joint" Oh no, ye mechanic* with hammer & screwdriver Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 tried earlier but reply would not send guess some update was underway however is all down to preference as is any sealing ideas 574 and similar only set when air is excluded from the faces , any excess out in the open stays semi liquid so cannot block oilways with anything solid , it stays a creamy liquid and its quite expensive stuff you only need a smear not a large bead that is just wasteful yes it does grab a grip but a gentle lever /persuader is needed to split the seal not exactly the coal hammer and chisel !! Ha Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 aha sealant in the hands of monkeys does not work well what else could they take off Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Bfg said: "literally hundreds" huh ..so why not just buy / have in a stock of gaskets ? Surely making them individually is a false economy. Sadly. There is a distinct shortage of suppliers when you are several thousand miles from land?. The different variations in sizes and the number of holes etc; anything fro 2" to +36" dia. makes it (virtually) impossible to keep the stock updated, the answer was make `em ourselves!. from sheet material. Which we kept in various thicknesses and grades. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: so cannot block oilways with anything solid , it stays a creamy liquid One of our local businesses was found to be sealing engines with black silicone sealer, and the mechanic I watched doing it told me that any excess would be dissolved by the petrol or oil. I had been asked to attend along with an assessor from an Insurance Company who was concerned about the large number of engine failures being claimed on warranty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 Can you still get blue hylomar? Was very popular at one time. Getting an oil tight seal with a Scraper, engineers blue and a plate, is an "art form", but the "old guys" of my apprenticeship actually managed it. Take my hat off to them, we struggled to get even a decent bearing fit at times. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Mathew said: Oh pete, you will be upset with my local ford dealer This is the state of my new car!!! After a week in there care!!!!!! Just to fix a small oil leak!!!!! Why is it not done in a day as previously agreed, the sealant they were supplied was out of date!!!! So the have to have the correct sealant in date! I know some only use sealant on sumps and the new stuff seals but does not block. I do think however they are swinging the lead on this one. Still i have there large transit, deliveries anyone!!!! Looks like they're working their way down to the sump plug ..from the top ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 Other little jobs are being done ... ^ as previously spotted, this stud through the overdrive's flange and its nut were not exactly precision fitted. The stud was poking through the back, but lacking threads in the nut. The dilemma then was how to get the stud out ..with damaging it and or separating the joint.? As you can see there's not enough thread for a single nut let alone for locking two together . . . ^ the solution I chose was to remove the washer, to expose more thread, and to loosely refit the nut on its stud with medium strength Loctite. When this cured it undid the stud from the cast flange. ^ although I would have preferred it an 1/8" longer.. the stud is just about long enough. I applied loctite to the thread into the cast flange and screwed it in to be flush with it back face. I let that cure before refitting its washer and nut. ^ Job done ..next. It was disappointing to see that the clutch release mechanism had been altered from as I'd fitted it just a few months ago . . . ^ several things were apparent. 1. I had left double bushes in the case where the rod passes through ..because those bushes were rather short. 2. there's a glean of oil around the bellhousing. somewhere is leaking. 3. the grease I had applied was lithium based molybdenum-disulphide ..as used CV joints where high shear loads (ie., sliding) and infrequent maintenance access is usual. This has been substituted with Copaslip ..a very different product intended for a completely different job. 4. the lock wire through the release-lever-fork does not go through the dowel pin. The prior owner of this car did that and the pin fell out and then the main pin sheared off, so I consider it necessary to wire that dowel pin in place. ^ where I'm pointing to, there's oil ..as if that gasket face is leaking. Or else the oil has come passed a seal around the splined shaft and has dribbled back. It might better account for the sheen of oil all around the inside of the bellhousing. Either way, it's an unhappy prospect. ^ Both ends of this shaft and their bushes are dry of lubrication. ^^And the bush in the RHS is part hanging out, with its end battered. As the bush is short it ought at least be under the shaft. These were a brand new bushes, that I had carefully drifted into their place. And there was a bolt through the hole under it, which located it. I'm disheartened by the lack of care & attention. I'll see if I can get another pair of new bushes, before I refit the gearbox. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 photos speak for themselves . . . ^ bolts without plain shanks and an apparently reused gasket. ^ two thread inserts, both proud of the gasket face. ^ untapped hole for the thread insert From cleaning out that hole.. it feels like silicon but with stripped-out-thread-bits to give it a nice crunchy texture. ^ the top hole's thread insert, similarly in a plain (untapped) hole. ^ it's going to rather difficult to prevent swarf from my tapping that hole, inbetween the two gears, from dropping into the gearbox case. And this is just 200 miles since the gearbox was professional rebuilt by Klassic Transmissions. I don't know if these faults were there before, but still I feel they ought to have been rectified in a professional manner. And although there might have been an occasional drip of oil under the car - it was, when bought, remarkable oil-leak free. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 I guess someone made a mistake ..and pulled the wrong size drill out of their kit.. ^ The drill supplied in my UNC thread-insert kit, when tapping for a 3/8" insert, is in the hole, whereas that for the 5/16" UNC (the correct bolt size) is in my fingers. So someone over-drilled them, and then instead of finishing the job with oversized bolts, they simply used goo. I might have sought sleeved inserts to fit into that over-sized hole, or else I was to go up in size to 3/8" UNC.. And that's what I've now done. Very awkward little task doing those two, so close to the input shaft, and within the bell housing, but I'm pleased with the way they've gone in. I guess I was very fortunate in preventing bits from dropping inside the gearbox, (using white grease on multiple layers of bubblewrap poked in, behind the holes, on the gearbox side) as subsequent flushing out with aerosol carb cleaner submitted no bits of swarf. Copper washers were used, but I see in the workshop manual that wedglok bolts were originally specified. Tomorrow I'll shop for a couple of bolts and copper washers to suit. ^ I'm equally as unimpressed with the drain plug hole, I'd guess that requires a special tapered tap ? Pete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 drain plug is a straight tap the plug is the tapered bit as a professional trader rebuild thats just absolutely AWFUL identify a defect announce it, and let you be the judge of the suggested solution not hide and miss out quite critical assembly conditions is just .................in excusable Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Thank you Gentlemen for your continued support and good advice. I've been otherwise busy these past couple of days, but this afternoon I refitted the front seal cover. As it was., I had already tapped and thread-inserted two of the four fastening holes with 3/8" UNC threads, while the other two remain as 5/16" UNC. . . . . . ^ of course, due care was needed to ensure that no coil wire end, nor bits of swarf, dropped into the input-shaft bearing or gear case. And, as before, the thread-inserts were Loctited in place and fitted just a little below the gasket face. Thankfully the length, the back-end of those through to the gear-case, were excellent. They are, I feel, now noticeably stronger than the original tapped threads. Today I started off with a little shopping, to Suffolk Fasteners, Ipswich because I needed just two 3/8" UNC bolts and a couple of copper washers to fit those. Because I wanted a plain-shanked bolts for these ..I bought longer and cut them to length. I'd also cleaned things up, made a new gasket, and annealed the two copper washers I'll reuse. . . ^ Parts all but ready. The inside of the cover's tube was water-proof greased to prevent surface rust. And the seal was given a liberal coating of synthetic lubricant containing Teflon. I used Wellseal on one side of the gasket (..which is first fitted around the bearing's retaining circlip) and a smear of grease on the other face. ^ another little minute job - done. Hopefully tomorrow I get a chance to refit the thrust-bearing assembly and perhaps drop the gearbox back into the car. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 In the meantime . . , aside from sometimes being idle, I'm taking the opportunity of clearer access to do a little more inside the car. . . ^ starting off with cleaning away the old gearbox-cover gasket, and straightening the (supposed) sealing flanges, which had been battered (..not by myself I might add). After all, if I hope for a reasonably pleasant car one day - then I really ought to avoid engine & transmission noise and fumes from simply wafting through the gaps. ^ Use a hammer & dolly where I can, but in places where the access is limited then an adjustable spanner, closed down to the flange's metal thickness, provide an excellent lever for bending the metal back into shape. Note, the sealing / fastening flange for the cover, on the later cars, projects from the bulkhead. There are no fastening holes through the bulkhead itself. ^ I also took the opportunity (easier access) to start cleaning up the bulkhead and then the driver's floor of crud, surface rust and rock-hard carpet-felt goo. My keenness was to get back onto a task that I started half a year ago, and that was to replace the thin fibreglass gearbox-cover fitted, with a steel one from a TR3. . . ^ I'd already cut it in two, so that rear of the dashboard support / H-frame would be detachable without disturbing the forward (bulkhead / under dashboard) section. But I'd never got as far as cleaning it up nor to straighten its flanges. As you can see this cover's end flange (left hand side of photo), is designed to sit flat against the bulkhead of the side-screens cars. It is fastened through this to the bulkhead. ^ that's very much straighter, sitting flat on the floor and its forward (bulkhead) flange sitting nominally upright and square. But there was still some repairs to do where this 60+ year old cover had cracks through a couple of its slotted bolt holes. ^ When fitted into the car this TR3 cover mostly fits the, 10-year later and massively revised body design of my TR4A. This is particularly amazing insomuch as the cover's fastening and seal flanges are different. Nevertheless five of the fastening bolts (1/4" UNF) around its bottom fitted without alteration (three on the RHS and two others on the LHS). This cover's height at the rear end (where I cut it off) is very much taller and wider than the TR4 type (which has to fit under the dashboard support / H-frame), but its fit to the body tub and along the floor edge is very convenient for its reuse. ^ From the inside you can see that the floor width is very good. NB, the TR4 floor-edge lacks a bolt hole in that front left hand , so the corner of the cover is not yet being pulled down fully). Otherwise, the cover's overall height around the front flange started off being about 8 - 10mm too tall. The steel cover has a hard corner shape on the LHS which needed a smoother curve. And a similar place on the RHS (at the top of the starter-motor's bulge) likewise needed a little easing and squaring to the TR4's sealing flange. Otherwise, the bulged shape around the starter motor was a little too rounded. . . ^ Although it took a while (..and an embarrassing show of bad temper when I ran out of welding wire ..just as the day's light was fading !) - the task of getting this cover to sit even better / flat against Katie's bulkhead, and down onto both side's floor edge, really wasn't that difficult a task. The width was already accurate, and the height at the front has now pulled down to about 6mm (1/4") too high. This is relative to the TR4's bulkhead sealing flange, but that really isn't too important to me as I can easily fill that with foam rubber. all in all, good progress and a very pleasing fit (..all things considered) ..but then it was dark again and I couldn't see to continue. If I get the gearbox back in the car in tomorrow, then that'll give me the height I can taper the cover down to towards its rear. Pete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 Slight change of plan today, I decided not to drop the gearbox back in yet. Last night, I noted in one of my photos that the other RHS gearbox-top-cover's threaded hole was also damaged. So, while the task is easy to do, I decided to fit a thread insert in there too ..not least because when I bought the car, its overdrive's earth lead was clamped under that bolt ..and so that thread may get a little more use than the others. Therefore, in planning my day - I opted to repaint the gearbox cover's flange on the bulkhead, the underside of the battery shelf, and a section of the passenger's footwell.. Again while access is good. And then while that paint was drying.. I'd work on the gearbox again. . . ^ I'm very pleased with how this paint applied by brush and covered. It's thin enough to brush into the cracks of panel overlaps, but just about thick enough, even on this chilly day, to not run. It came from Johnstone's trade store and is their Smooth Metal Paint (Acrylic, so that I might thin it down with white spirits should I need it very thin / for wicking into joints). The colour is RAL3001 Signalrot (red) which is very close to this car (I took a piece in to be colour matched). The rear half of the passenger footwell I'll repaint after the gearbox is slid back in and my bashing of the steel gearbox cover is done. The driver's footwell still needs a bit more cleaning up before I paint it with POR-15 (as I'd already done on the passenger side). It'll then get painted body colour whenever anon. As intended, I then fitted another 5/16 UNC thread-insert into the top of the gearbox, before cleaning off the black paint and giving it a light blow-over with aerosol silver. . . ^ the (exchanged / reconditioned) overdrive was already bright n' shiny silver, but the gearbox and its bellhousing were patchy / flaky black paint with a smear of oil. Although I hope not to see it again very often, I'll now be able to more easily tell where any other oil leak may be coming from. That's it from blustery wet Ipswich tonight. I bid you warmth in your home and a pleasant weekend. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 Thanks Mathew, I felt this paint covered very well indeed, it's just a single coat. I finished painting the floor soon after 3pm today (stormy, 5 to 6-degree c., 92 - 95% humidity, with blustery rain outside ..so very glad I now have the poly-tunnel). At ten past three I put a fan heater inside the closed car to warm it just a little ..not that the side windows or hood presently fit to seal it very well ! And of course there's no gearbox tunnel fitted so warmth would just drift away, and then the metal of the floor and bulkhead will be cold on their outside. The fan was on its lowest fan speed and thermostat setting (so is mostly not on) and the new paint (on the floor) was dry but tacky to the touch two hours later when I stopped for the day. Freshly painted acrylic tends to feel tacky anyway. It feels much the same now at 9:50pm. I haven't reached further in to feel if the paint feels any harder higher up the bulkhead ..where there may have been a little more warmth. Triumph engineers were fine fellows, insomuch as they placed a bunged hole in the floor of their cars to drop the heater's plug and lead through.. I'm inclined to think that was very considerate of them Tomorrow's forecast is for 2 to 3-degrees c. temperatures, so I'll not expect it to harden very much in that. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 Happy Sunday.. where I like to wake a little later than usual, make myself a cup of coffee with toast & marmalade, and then go back to read in my still snugly-warm nest.. Luxury ! As a consequence I don't do much work on such days. In fact today I just did a couple of hours ..not because of any great urgency, but simply because I wanted to do this task while access was still easy, and again to allow the paint to dry before I continue playing around with the gearbox cover. . . ^ the first hour was more cleaning and wire brushing, solvent wipes, etc., ^ second hour painting with POR-15, as I had done previously in the passenger side footwell. Finished at 3:30, and that was it for today.. I bid you a good evening. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Mk3Spitfire Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 I really enjoy reading your trials and tribulations, very helpful, informative and (sometimes) entertaining. Thank you. By comparison, I’m almost embarrassed to confess my Triumph weekend maintenance as lifting the cover, putting some charge into the battery and adding a couple of psi to the tyres as the vehicle will stand still for the next several months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted November 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 ^ Thank you David. It was pretty cold to work outside yesterday, but I was satisfied to take even that little step ..in the right direction.! Perhaps you are fortunate insomuch as your car doesn't need this sort of correction and preventative care ? I think it might be rather nice to be able to park the car up and know that it will be good to go in the springtime. I could instead be working on the boat ! Today I painted the driver's-side footwell, bulkhead and side panel ..again while access was easier for me to climb inside and invert myself. My being right-handed makes this footwell all the more awkward to twist around to . . . ^ Painted to the same extent as the passenger side, again until I've dropped the gearbox back in and bashed its cover to shape. And then back onto the gearbox . . ^ reassembly of the thrust-bearing & its fork mechanism, this time with a liberal application of grease in its bearings, and also cross wire-locking of both the standard pin and dowel. Next job then . . . ^ reverse procedure of blocks to slide the gearbox on as when I removed it. Lifted over the door step first, with the overdrive resting on a 3/4" thick block resting on the sill's upstanding flange. ^ slid forward on the blocks as I lifted the back end around. The aforementioned 3/4" block was then moved from the sill to now protect the edge of the floor. From there the gearbox was slid forward onto the waiting board, still with jack and timber column support under it. Blocks are positioned over the propshaft's forward UJ. Lifting the overdrive onto this bridge tilts the bellhousing under the car's heater. From there it is slid forward on the under-supported piece of plywood. Without drama, with lumber not strained, and all fingers and paintwork intact. ^ getting to this stage was fiddly, insomuch as the I made things difficult for myself.. because I had left the gearbox mount / bolt-on chassis cross-brace in place, and then also my extra-long (extended forward) T-shirt plate under the chassis prevented the propshaft from dropping lower (..had it just been an extra 1/4" lower that would have made life easier). Nevertheless with jiggling around the task was done, without loss of composure. From door sill to thus far took 40 minutes, on my own. But then getting the input-shaft spline to engage with clutch ..so that the gearbox would push forward, proved a time consuming business. I was just about to give up for the evening ..to come back to it afresh in the morning, and gave things a last half-hearted shove, and lo n' behold it clicked forward. I cannot explain why it did so, as nothing had changed from my pushing n' shoving and twisting n' levering five minutes earlier.. but it kindly obliged and just slipped in. ^ Gearbox back in ..still with paintwork intact and flanges straight. The gearbox mount is now back in place and I've a few bolts in the engine, and so it's nearly done. Tomorrow I hope to get things all bolted up, with the starter and clutch slave-cylinder back in place, and the gearbox top cover on again, so then I can move forward with reshaping its steel cover. Progress., as well as footwell rust-protection and colour-correct prettiness ! Hopefully soon the gearbox will now be oil-leak free, and it'll all be brushed under the carpet ! Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted December 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 My tasks since putting the gearbox back in, has of course been to bolt it up, fit the gearbox mount, the gearbox rear vibration damper, and reconnect the drive shaft, to refit the top cover (after having filled the gearbox with fresh oil) and to refit the clutch slave cylinder. Bolting the bellhousing up took a little longer than expected as most of the bolts were a little short and I had to do some finding. The bellhousing's underside dust plate (a home made item) and slave cylinder had a weird assortment of bolts and wrong sized washers. I guess it's not really that important but down under I reverted back to UNF thread sizes with nylocs rather than its assortment of BSF's and something else. These things all take time.! ^ I was doubtful about the slave cylinder push-rod though, so I thought I'd ask you if this (once its battered forks are straightened) is correct with the square end on a pivot. It's not the same as shown in the parts book, but that tends to focus on the TR4 and perhaps this odd end was used on the 4A ? Btw., it works fine. Oh yes, I also cleaned up the starter motor has which was pretty dusty and a little oily. . ^ I only mention this as an advisory to other owners with a high-torque starter, as part of its cable insulation appears to be silicon, but the cover over the terminal is rubber. . . ^ And that literally crumbled in my fingers. When fitted, this faces the engine block, so it's generally hidden from under-bonnet view. Beyond being salvaged., I cobbled together a cover in neoprene which I secured with a cable tie. I guess radiant heat from the exhaust down-pipes baked the rubber. Putting insulation on those pipe has move up my job list, as this heat damage probably hasn't done much for the starter motor or its gearbox lubrication either. I'll come back to checking and re-lubricating that anon. In the meantime, I wanted to address the wiring that was loosely dangling over the gearbox, this of course being for the overdrive. ^ This is as it was, after the chassis change ..save my having taped over the solenoid's wiring connection and have better secured it with a cable tie to the switch. I've now (2nd photo) cut the wires to an appropriate length, replaced the bullet connection which was dangling away from its insulation (all new connections are soldered on), extended the outer protective sleeve, and secured the run of the cables with a clip from the top cover bolt ..which is no longer a bolt because I made a stud to go into that threaded hole ..for the earth lead. The wires will no longer go via grommet through the gearbox cover. Instead I drilled a new hole through the bulkhead just below where the throttle linkage comes out. That'll of course have a grommet. You'll note in the first of these photos the dangles of wire alongside the heater duct (in the driver's footwell). Those are the other end of the overdrive's wiring, from the ammeter and ignition switch ..to/from its relay. ^ those same wires ..rudely exposed And then (2nd photo) the wires from the ammeter and ignition switch to the relay. Bottom is the bit I'm reusing, that above is what I've cut out. In retrospect, having now refitted it, I would have made the 'reused' bit some 2" shorter. So literally, these wires are twice as long as they needed to be. Btw., left or right hand drive makes little difference, so I'm wondering if this overdrive's sub-loom was a universal item or came from another model of Triumph ? While doing this I had the ammeter out and cleaned each connection and the bulb fitting, checked them for tightness, and liberally applied Vaseline before refitting. Likewise for each wiring connection I've touched. Again it takes quite a bit of time but I plan to go through every connection on the car to do the same. Better to do it now than to try and find a poor connection one night when it's peeing with rain. While under the dashboard, I took the opportunity to correct (..or at least improve) the dashboard / steering column stay. This is something Richard (RAHTR4) very kindly pointed out and advised me on, back in April. Thank you Richard, I knew I'd get around to doing it sometime. Funny how one or two other things sort of got in the way. ^ Richard had spotted, in a previous photo, that the stay (red Arrow) should be bolted via the bolt through the aluminium steering column clamp, and not to back of the dashboard, and at its bulkhead end.. should go the nut on the bracket (red circle). Instead it went to an home-positioned bolt, with half its head cut off, through the corner of the bulkhead panel, just under the clutch master cylinder. . . He speculates that the bracket is from a LHD car. The one Katie (RHD cars) ought to have is not bent 90-degrees at the end and is shorter. For me working outside in 2 to 3 degrees temperatures this afternoon, it was quicker and easier to straighten the bracket's end ..but to keep it the same length. Oddly though, I did have to re-drill both ends from 1/4" to 5/16". Now (below) the one end is (just above the red arrow) ) bolted to the aluminium steering-column clamp, and I've taken the other end to the bolt (blue circle) at the rear end of the pedal-assembly pressing on the bulkhead, which I know to be strong. . . That's all for tonight. Slow but steady(ish) progress. Now that I've routed the wiring to overdrive I can get back to metal-bashing the gearbox cover again. Bidding you a good evening, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted December 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2021 Christmas tunes aside.. I've been having a bashing good time these past few days. . . On the TR forum a contributor, Peter W, had helpfully pointed out that the TR3 gearbox cover would foul the cast shape of the TR4 bell-housing ..which has a more pronounced bulge over its different starter bendix. That part of the panel would need reshaping just about here . . . With the cover back in place and bolted down as best I could (it was being held away just a little in this front corner, I could tap on the outside of the cover to find the centre of the hard contact sound of the bellhousing's starter motor bulge . ^ with the cover back in place and bolted down as best I could (it was being held away just a little in this front corner, I could tap on the outside of the cover to find the centre of the hard contact sound of the bellhousing's starter motor bulge. I marked that, and then transferred the mark to the inside of the cover with a centre-punch dint. I also measured the bulge from the floor rim and from the bulkhead, to know its extents. I then stretched (read - hammered ..but with awareness !) the metal locally to form a corresponding bulge. . . ^ checking from the inside ..again using the camera to see where the head couldn't possible get into, the clearance now created between the bellhousing and the cover. In most places I'm leaving more of a gap around the gearbox, for sound insulation, but this is right next to where my size 12 brogue is trying to find a resting place ..other than on the clutch pedal or bulkhead mounted headlamp-dip-switch, so I wanted to keep things tight. BTW., the fibreglass cover that was fitted rubbed on this corner which I think might have been Katie's #287 rattle n' clatter. With foot room (width) in mind.. I then did a little more bashing & cutting just forward of this bulge. . . ^ This is yet to be be dressed (smoothed), but I'm sure you can see the indentation forward of the starter motor's bulge, and also that I've cut-off the flange, which extended passed that corner of the bulkhead. The TR4 cover's fastening flange, projecting back from the bulkhead is still there, so the cover will still have a seal in that corner. And although I may have only gained another 3/8" to 1/2" of width, it all helps make the car more comfortable for me. - - - Next up, having got this front section of the cover to fit the floor and bulkhead nicely, would be to tackle the cover's rear section - which is to fit between this forward section and the propshaft tunnel. But first I had to overcome a psychological hurdle ..to the point of it being utterly demotivating . . . On 21/03/2021 at 14:29, Bfg said: However... Tommy seemed to be struggling with simply getting on with the job. It was his job and so I tried to only suggest client instructions to what was wanted. In truth I was enthusiastic by the fit and I just wanted to get on and do it. His rolling & smoking cigarettes while he was thinking was getting to me ..as indeed was rap "music" out of the transistor, having tea and then toasted sandwiches, and his not being able to find tools. There are no solid work-benches, and two lightweight stands are covered with tools and drill bits ..from however long ago. So anything is done by scampering around on the floor or otherwise hammered over a steel (horse) trestle at the other end of the workshop According to the photos, we started looking at these g/box covers at 11:40am. And the photo taken ..where the cover was simply cut into two, was taken at 13:12pm ..an hour and a half later ! ..by 16:00 we had packed up. The cuts (as darts) he'd made to bring the small rear part of the cover lower & narrower (to fit under the H-frame) was let's say "not as I would have done it". Very ugly indeed, horribly hammered, and with just a few holding-tacks of weld to show for 4-1/4 hours work. The front / larger part of the cover hadn't yet been touched. If I were to let it continue, then it would be a very expensive job (for what I was getting). Perhaps it's a sad reflection on me, but I am not even able to watch someone work like this. After doing things my own way, and just getting on with the job on my own for the past 40 years - I was getting more and more wound up. I didn't say anything but.. I'll not continue with him doing this. Expand ^ Untouched since that day in March, this was how things were when I call a halt to Tommy's efforts. It may seem odd to some, but to me these are abusive hammer marks. My task for today., was to make this once tidy gearbox tunnel, once again tidy. And for it to be structural. The question was how to proceed.? I started off by scrubbing out the inside of dirty grease / oily sooty deposits, and the hardened remnants of an ancient rubber or was it bituminous seal. I cannot believe any professional would even start to panel beat something that has filthy crud inside it. How can they see or feel what they are doing ? I then chose to undo most of what had been done, and so released the tack welds. To clean up overlapping metal and, more readily get inside with my panel-beating hammer and dolly, to redress this panel's shape.. I cut (with my faithful old Gilbow hand-shears) from the bottom cut on the left hand side (seen in this 2nd photo) around in a curve to the long hole.. Not exactly surgeon like, but I'm sure you get the drift. My intent was to try and save the top piece with its original gear-change hole, if only to use that as template. It took a little while to get things looking like it hadn't been in a crash, but thanks to good quality steel used in the 1950's.. it progressed well. The next stage was then to fit this panel's bottom flange to the floor edge. The TR4 is a little more shapely in these parts ..probably because its squarer seats needed a tad more space, so a few cuts through the flanges would be required. Nothing very drastic but necessary to get a decent fit. ^ I also needed another bulge.. this one is to fit over the speedo cable, which then necessitated my having to refold that section of flange. While doing these things I was bearing in mind how to re-form it (this section of the TR3 cover) lower and narrower to fit under the TR4's dashboard support / H-frame //and yet for the gear-change boot to be end up in the right place ? ^ the front section of the tunnel cover is clear of the H-frame, but will still need to be lowered at its back-end by an inch and also narrowed, particularly on its LHS. The rear section I reshaped to bring its top considerably narrower. The 8mm thick pieces of wood are spacers to allow for carpet. The cover, where it sits over the prop-shaft tunnel was slit back from what was a grommet hole (..but for the last 3/8") so even that part of this panel's top could overlap and be narrower. Next, I needed to recreate the top of this rear section ..the bit I'd cut-off. I opted to straighten out / redress the original and tack-weld over Tommy's cuts, because I wanted this part's curves and hole for the gear-change rubber and also the original transition shape ..from rising up from the prop-shaft tunnel to leveling off over the gearbox. . . . ^ I happy that this rear section is beginning to look half decent again. Shame about the extra work but hey that's water under the bridge already ..not least as I'm pleased with today's progress. Bidding you a good weekend, Pete. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted December 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2021 Nice job Mathew. Yes, in steel it will add a backbone the body tub. Getting things neat around the gear lever is awkward ..as is the compromise (particularly with the Triumph gearbox with its extended linkages and other bits poking out all over the place, plus the bulk of an O/D and its solenoid) in trying to make things tighter fitting (for the sake of interior space in a small car) and the smooth lines required for neatly fitting carpets over. Clearly the RX8 gearbox is much neater in that respect. The cover I'm making will eventually be in two parts, and bolted together ..with the rear section easily removed for access to the solenoid, the speedo drive, and the driveshaft's front UJ. The fibreglass cover I'm replacing also has four local-access covers. Unfortunately I'll still need one for filling the gearbox oil. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted December 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2021 On 12/4/2021 at 11:29 PM, Bfg said: Next, I needed to recreate the top of this rear section ..the bit I'd cut-off. I opted to straighten out / redress the original and tack-weld over Tommy's cuts, because I wanted this part's curves and hole for the gear-change rubber and also the original transition shape ..from rising up from the prop-shaft tunnel to leveling off over the gearbox. . . . moving on . . ^ I needed to redefine the size, curvature and position of the gear-change gaiter ^ Looking more like a piece of medieval armour than part of a TR4A ! ? But now ..at last, I was close to where I would started, had I modified this cover without Tommy's help.. ^ the gaiter centralised with the gear-change mechanism, and the top part of this now positioning lower to clear the dashboard support / H-frame. ^ I shaped a little more clearance around the overdrive's solenoid, and then above that the cover has to taper in quite sharply to get under the H-frame. The gear-change extension's anti-vibration strap had previously worn through both the gaiter and the old fibreglass cover, so this time I smoothed the corners off. ^ raw materials, from the back of a boiler, relieved from the skip ..Put to good use I thought. ^ I'm slowly but surely getting there. My hope is still to not use the H-frame, but if scuttle shake is pronounced and otherwise unable to be resolved.. then I need to know that I can fit it. There is still the bulge over the speedo cable to make, and these flanges need a few repairs around their bolt holes.. but for the time being I'll move on with the front section of the is cover to bring its height down to match. . . That's it from sunny Ipswich this morning, Have a good'n. Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted December 8, 2021 Report Share Posted December 8, 2021 I'm pretty sure from the colour and shape that I (well, they're my Dad's really) have the same set of metal shears! That tunnel is coming nicely, shame to read about another 'professional' job that was anything but though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted December 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2021 ^ Those Gilbow shears are really great. I've had mine for I-don't-know-how-many years. I've had four other pairs of shears (one is left-handed) but these and my small ones are the ones I use mostly. Good tools are worth their investment. They cut straight, handle corners well and have remained sharp, despite some hard use. - - - Today I didn't get a lot done, but still a little progress in the right direction is better than things going backwards . . . ^ I started by cutting the RHS of the forward section, in much the same way as I've done on the LHS., and then you'll spot some vertical cuts too. There is method in the madness, although you may have to be just a little crazy to see it ! The second photo is the bulge over the starter motor, which I had reworked before, but wasn't happy with. I'd like a little more width between the clutch pedal and this panel, and that would only be possible if I cut and reworked it again. . . ^ Oh my.. this was taking things to another level. I've cut and twisted the steel to follow parallel to the bellhousing's starter bendix bulge. This give me a 2" wide step / footrest just about the clutch pedal height, and then a second narrower step in from the flange. The latter I may add to (width wise) with a bolted-on clutch footrest for my foot down alongside the pedal (below). . . My size 12's now have an inch more width. Not as much as I'd like, but still it is better (..for me) than it was. BFG ( ..Big footed gxxxx ? ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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