llessur Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 I am swapping out the old and gunked up front wheel bearings on my '77 2500S - the car's not seen the road in 10 years or so, so it seems like a good precaution. The stub axles seem visually OK, with minor wear marks where the bearings sit but nothing too significant. However, the inner bearing cup (the one closest to the vertical link) is free to move slightly on the stub axle. The bearings are the correct Timken ones supplied by Chris Witor. Is any movement between the bearing cup and stub axle acceptable, or should this essentially be an interference fit? I have read contrasting things on various forums ranging from no, to some movement is fine, to yes it's necessary. Just wanted to find out what people think before I shell out $$$ on new stub axles. Last time I did wheel bearings was on my Spitfire about 10 years ago so I can't remember what the fit was like there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Loctite 641 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 The bearing fit on the stub axle is a loose hand fit, it is designed to rotate on the stub to spread the impact point to be ever changing the outer cups are a press fit the inners have to be a lesser non interference fit or you also would not be able to remove the hub without a puller So yes its quite normal for the stub surface to show signs of bearing rotation as thats what it does. On the contrary it is not a rattlng good fit , just sized to allow fit and remove by hand !! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: On the contrary it is not a rattlng good fit , just sized to allow fit and remove by hand !! Sounds like my Levis, I need the next size up. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 that gives me a nightmare image not to be confused with sweet dreams i have no preference for seeing Doug on one leg fighting to get his Levis ..Off....Or...... On please censor the idea Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llessur Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 07/06/2019 at 16:11, Pete Lewis said: The bearing fit on the stub axle is a loose hand fit, it is designed to rotate on the stub to spread the impact point to be ever changing the outer cups are a press fit the inners have to be a lesser non interference fit or you also would not be able to remove the hub without a puller So yes its quite normal for the stub surface to show signs of bearing rotation as thats what it does. On the contrary it is not a rattlng good fit , just sized to allow fit and remove by hand !! Pete That's great - I'll take this answer as it saves me from doing anything else It's by no means rattling, I just noticed it was free to move which contradicted 50% of the advice I've read about this online. The outer cups are definitely a press-fit on the hub. Cheers all for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Pete, I don't following that reasoning. No shaft is perfect it has lows and highs, as will the ID of the bearing. The highs will engage, the same highs as the bearing rotates on the shaft, concentrating stress on the same points and wearing them. The shaft will gradually get thinner and the bearing sleeve wider. If the bearing is such a loose fit that the inner race can be hand-turned then it needs to be locked. That's why I suggested the LockTite product. John Edited June 11, 2019 by JohnD Bloody autocorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Thats good, I wonder about the solid spacer kits that are made,it defys the base design and ability to have a ever changing Load point Happy days , just grease the bearings there is no point in filling the hub cavity in fact that just traps heat and it will never get to the bearing race so save grease and let the heat escape Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Pete, The load point should be the whole axle. Concentrate it on one or a few points and wear or failure will result. The inner race should not move! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 John all I can add is from over 40 years in manufacuring and problem solving the rotation ofraces is a designed condition of limits and fits for taper roller bearings and straight ball races at least in the automotive use. More modern Cassette bearings are fixed they are very different design and dont need to be removed for lets say normal servicing adjustments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 John look at the back of any triumph or other D washer and you will see the light witness marks of rotation If its a press or constrained fit how to remove the hub and how would you know the inner is fully seated to set the end float They should move...quite freely really On a front the outer ring rotates with the hub so ever changing load/impact position the inner if static would always take the load impact in the same place, not good, so its allowed to slowly rotate, its not worn the stubs for around 50 years ,,,, cant be bad Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 I acknowledge your vastly greater experience, Pete, of automotive practice especially. But I would refer to this, a document from NSK, the bearing manufacturers, on "Bearing fitting practice", and in particular, to this paragraph on the first page: I would say that none of those conditions are fulfilled by an ordinary stub axle shaft, and a wheel bearing is not "large". See: https://www.nsk.com/common/data/ctrgPdf/split/e728/NSK_CAT_E728g_3.pdf Let's agree to differ. I've locked mine, if Lessur will report in a while on his axle shafts, we can compare! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Dont forget the stub is heat treated to give it some life And whats Large and pun bearing in mind the triumph design is not fixed or pressed inners at the front or pressed hsg.. fit at the rear 'They knew' Ha!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llessur Posted June 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 My other thought about using Loctite or similar is that the bearing would be covered in grease on all surfaces after I've finished packing it - I'm not convinced I could clean the inner surface of the cup up (and keep it clean whilst sliding the bearing on to the hub) well enough for the product to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just do what Triumph designed it works , free to turn easy to remove tight in the hub hand fit on the stub No addatives centre pops or anything else ,, if you are paranoid about bearing limits and fits then use a spacer and shims to make a solid fix with the correct end float i doubt many do premium miles to prove the wear problems of wheel bearings of this type. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llessur Posted June 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: Just do what Triumph designed it works , free to turn easy to remove tight in the hub hand fit on the stub No addatives centre pops or anything else ,, if you are paranoid about bearing limits and fits then use a spacer and shims to make a solid fix with the correct end float i doubt many do premium miles to prove the wear problems of wheel bearings of this type. Pete That was my plan (as I've already done one wheel and am loath to go back and do it again) - I just wondered for those who do use Loctite, how they deal with the very greasy situation that most wheel bearings are prior to assembly. Would Loctite even grip properly in that environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 loctite do make a specific one called bearing fit ,, i think all will say clean an dry before application, it goes solid when air is excluded but how it response to a greasy condition needs them to answer and it depends alot on just what product you use there is a vast range of sticks everything in their catelogue if you do want to seal things 574 ive used following trials on truck production joint faces its remarkable stuff at leak free joints it would glue a bearing on , and much more , disassembly is less than easy Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Bearing fit works great..... but has to be spotless or it wont work. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 "LocTite Bearing Fit" = LocTite 641. Wot I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 Hi. Last time I greased my front bearings, I was unsure if the inner was supposed to be able to spin on the stub, so didn't grease this area. Will the grease have got flung about enough to have done this anyway. Prefer not strip it again to do this. Ta, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I'd be surprised if it hasn't got greased enough for the amount of movement it's expected to have. It doesn't "spin" on the stub axle, it rotates gradually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I echo what Robs said, on the assy line its a pressurised cup that squirts into the race and as far as the stub Goes wham bang thankyou Next ... Mind you in the 60s it was probably a guy with a big drum of grease and a wooden spoon or spatular technology everybody on the track got some . Spat !!! After 50 years of going round and round its a bit late to worry now Ha Pete Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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