First start on new engine

[Steve P]

So this weekend i finally managed to get everything done on my new 1500 lump in my Herald,spec is +20 bore,head from a racer i bought from e bay,ported,flowed with bullet nosed valves.

decent spec cam (newmans)nitrided crank,all fully balanced.10:1 comp ratio with roller rockers.

123 Tune usb dizzy,4-1 manifold into a home made Vitesse system.HS4 carbs with K+N filters with stub stacks inside and an air box from another forum member.

Single rail o/d box and 3:63 diff.

Never used a 123 before but wired as per the instructions,got the nearest to static timing i could.After spinning with no plugs to get the oil going round,it fired right up first go.

Couple of minor water leaks from the pump and a fuel leak from one of the float bowls where the jet pipe goes in,sorted easily enough.

Did 20 miles locally today to make sure its ok,needs a tune up,and the dipstick seems to be weeping from the top,i can`t seem to get the thing all the way in because of the angle,and the exhaust and carb heatshield gets in the way.

Couple of question,i searched for static timing for the engine and found variations from 6 to 10 degrees btdc,i set to 6.Is this right?.

Also i have the ali rad from e bay,is this the right cap?.What poundage should it be?.

Next job,strip the front suspension and fit the 4 pot calipers i have.

Cheers

Steve

 

[NonMember]

Your engine is modified. The book "static advance" figures are meaningless. You need to set it to what it likes by listening for pinking or, since you have a 123Tune and can adjust the curve, get it set up properly on a rolling road.

The radiator cap on a 1500 would have been 13PSI but, again, much of that was limited by the radiator so with your eBay one it could be slightly higher.

[Sparky_Spit]

I have a "new" 1500 with similar-ish spec that has now done about 850 miles since its first start.  I have static set at 8deg BTDC and an Aldon Amethyst box currently mapped with a conservative curve flattening out at 20deg at 3000rpm, so giving max advance of 28deg.  This feels fine for running the engine in and it's giving really good torque from 2k up to an occasional 4k-ish, which is as far as I have taken it so far.  It has a Mk3 grind cam retarded by 3deg (crankshaft) to favour torque over high rev BHP.  Once properly run in it will go on a rolling road session to get it set up correctly, which as Rob says, is a must really.

 

[Steve P]

Plan is to get it on the rollers as soon as i put some miles on it,i was looking to get it running as well as i can to run it in,i`m using Driven break in oil for the first few hundred miles.

Steve

[Steve P]

Took some of the advance off the map. and took it out tonight,was driving much better,after 5 miles it developed a bad misfire,feels like fuelling to me.

Something else to find.

Steve

[thescrapman]

Steve

Set the 123 to TDC and introduce any advance via the mapping.. Easy to get it back to a known point in the future.

put a basic copy of the 1500 curve into the 123 for running in.

then get out of the road with someone with good hearing and get them to adjust the mapping on the fly.

[Steve P]

Thanks Colin,

I set it to pretty much what Sparky Spit said,topping out at 20 degrees,it was running much smoother until it developed a bad misfire,had a quick look at the plugs today,front 2 look hot and the rear 2 are sooty.Going to reset everything but i don`t want to let it idle.

Steve.

[Steve P]

Had a look today,put new plugs in again,just because i had some,checked the floats,lines from carb to carb,checked the pump and found the below on the outlet side.

It is one of 2 things,a piece of gaffer tape which i had used to close off the pump in/out connections whilst the engine was in the shed,which i thought i had removed all of,or the tank lining stuff i put in 4 years ago

Can`t make up my mind,took the car out and did about 5 miles with no misfiring.

Steve

[Steve P]

Update:200 miles covered including 90 today boiling my head with the roof down.

Changed all the fuel hoses throughout as i found a couple had gone soft and split,stripped the carbs as one of the jets would not return fully home on the carb body,this was a rebuilt pair by a well known supplier a few years ago,sorted with a hammer and fine wet and dry.Car running great now,but a couple more issues to deal with.

It`s runnig hot,i changed the cap for a 13lb one as the one with the rad said 1.1 bar,which is around 16lb.The overflow is  always cold and never gets the expansion from the rad.Anyone know whats supposed to happen?.Needle on the gauge goes from just over half to almost in the red(though not in) never actually overheated or blew steam out. though.

Also there is a fair amount of oil coming out of the cap vent hole,it has Goodparts roller rockers and needs the addition of a rocker oil feed,i think it needs more restriction?

Could it be too much crankcase pressure?.

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

rocker feed needs a max 1mm hole plug in the banjo bolt  possibly even down to 0.5mm  ,  i guess  its the splash is a bit excessive .

the gauge is only  a guide  not a bible,   , in this heat over half but under red is not unexpected .

if you have the correct sender ??? 

pressure caps only raise the boiling point , too high may exceed the hose  capacity , do make sure the cap seal is not swollen and filling the neck with rubber ,  which will stop any vented coolant escaping to the overflow. and there are different depths of cap fit a deep cap on a shallow neck it will never open to let off steam, 

pete

 

[JohnD]

Hear, hear to Pete on restricting the head oils feed.

Remove the oil filer cap on the running, hot engine.    Is there a draught ot that is a wind, or only a zephyr?   Subjective, but tells you about crankcase pressure.   That is due to piston blowby, and a compression gaige will tell you if you have one that is excessive.    No absolute figures though, unless you can do the test ona 'known good' engine at the same time.

John

 

[Steve P]

Thanks Pete and John,

Engine is newly built and as stated above has done 200 miles,oil issue came to light on the first longish run i did.I am going to check the restriction on it.Also need to check the cap depth.

Steve

[johny]

Coolant should come out of the vent pipe otherwise you either have a air in the system or something is expanding (hoses?) to accommodate the volume change. The rad level is obviously critical and it should be brimmed with the engine running although any air their should be pushed out during warm up. The pipe itself is best off being clear and rigid enough to not collapse under the vacuum produced when sucking the coolant back on cool down. Ive suffered with hoses, including the the overflow, not being tight enough so they dont leak liquid (but maybe steam when hot although its so little you cant see it) and then on cooling allow air to be sucked in. It results in always finding the rad level a little low and not being able to keep the overflow pipe always filled as it should be.... 

[Steve P]

Looking like there is no restriction in the oil feed banjo bolt,going to remove it tomorrow to confirm,what is the best way of restricting it?.fill the hole in the centre somehow?.

Surely you cant put a washer or something in front of it as the copper washer the other end won`t seal?.

Water issue:I`m going to run it with the rad cap off to clear any air locks to start with.

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

from memory !!!!tap the inside of the banjo bolt,  fit a cut off bolt thread  and drill it with a small hole 

only a short slug or you block the feed holes in the sides 

Pete

[Steve P]

No restriction on the feed,the catch tank is full of oil giving and indication of how much was going into the rocker box,ordered another banjo bolt today to modify.

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

let us know if this solves anything 

Pete

[Steve P]

Another update,not a good one.

 

Yesterday we went to the coast in the Herald,engine has covered 485 easy miles,including an oil and filter change.

Even with the 1mm hole in the rocker feed it was still losing oil from the cover breather,yesterday as we were going along near Basingstoke at about 30mph it started misfiring,then i noticed grey smoke from the exhaust behind me.Immediately pulled over and checked,the upshot is No 2 bore is full of coolant,so its screwed.

Got picked up by a recovery truck which then proceeded to break down.Got home after a second truck came out.Can`t even be bothered to look atm.

S

[Pete Lewis]

heck thats some bad luck.

this does have recessed  bores for the  gasket  fire rings  and gasket with a tab at the rear end ????

Pete

[Steve P]

Another update,car is back at the engine builders,they are saying no damage to the head or block,just the gasket gone,car has never overheated or been over 2800 revs.

It has ARP head bolts which i don`t have the tool for so it was not re-torqued after running up.

They are going to get it running again and check the issue with excessive oil in the top end,even with a 1mm restriction in the banjo.

I had a thought about the Aluminium rad that i fitted,the expansion tank was always cold,i wondered if the cooling system was over pressurised and unable to vent to the bottle?.

Could this have contributed?

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

dont see how a alloy rad can affect the pressure in the system  

if they examine the HG it should give some clues why it failed , 

Pete

[Steve P]

Just thought that because the expansion tank never saw hot water the system is acting as if its closed so the pressure has nowhere to go?.

Steve

[johny]

I believe your rad probably came with a 1.1bar cap which is 16psi compared to the 13psi standard item but such a small increase shouldnt have made any difference. Of course if the cap jammed shut (is that possible?) then when the engine started to warm up the pressure in the system could have reached quite a high level and done damage but this would have been immediate and catastrophic. 

However the overflow bottle might not have warmed up very much because on initial warm up the water thats pushed into it is quite cool as its the water in the block thats heating and expanding (even before the thermostat has opened) and the rad water still hasnt heated up. Obviously eventually some hot water will go into bottle but then if you drive with a constant load on the engine its temperature is fairly stable which then means very little water is being expelled to and sucked back from the bottle so allowing it to cool down.... 

[Steve P]

I don`t think any water was either sucked or returned to the bottle,it was always stone cold and the level never changed.I did at least 2 runs of over 100 miles without stopping so it would have got to temperature,the gauge never went past half way.

S

[johny]

well another possibility is a pocket of air in the system that was absorbing the expansion of the water (I calculated for mine its about 250ml). It has to go somewhere so maybe yours, for some reason, caused a head gasket leak straight away and then once that water was lost, if it wasnt topped up, the resulting air pocket absorbed the volume changes after that?

Its important to check that the overflow hose is always full (alright sometimes it may have some bubbles in it) as this indicates that you have no air pocket in the top of the rad and the coolant syphon effect is working correctly.