Tom Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hello, as well as todays diff adventures (those that have been following) And due to my angle gringer blowing up I decided to confirm my suspicions that the juddering clutch I was experiencing just before the old girl went into hibernation was due to either a failed rear crank seal or a leaking gearbox seal. I pulled to box out and to my joy it was bone dry in the bell housing so I can remove seals from my parts list. Inspection of the clutch has revealed a broken spring in the plate (see pic ) could this have been the source of the judder? Pressure plate springs are fine and flywheel looks good, thrust bearing is a little lumpy so I'm hoping a clutch kit will sort that out. Also could judder be caused by general wear, slop in the drivetrain itself? I have rebuilt the hubs and uj's already and had the propshaft reconditioned and balanced, also all the rubber bushing and mountings will be new so that will tighten the show up I suppose? can anyone reccomend a clutch kit and supplier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I think a new clutch will greatly improve things (sorry no recommendations). What's the slight shiny band on the left of the friction plate underneath the screwdriver in your photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Go for the best you can afford; you want it to perform, and last. If you can find a NOS Borg and Beck online, go for it - modern ones aren't as good. Make sure you get the correct version as some will say they fit all Heralds, others will sell a kit for 1961 - 1965 models, and still others will sell pre and post 1967 versions. I suspect yours is coil spring? You might want to upgrade to diaphragm, same fitting (unless the dowels in the flywheel differ? Anyone remember?) but slightly larger plate and you'll need to replace the slave cylinder too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Cooper Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: You might want to upgrade to diaphragm, same fitting (unless the dowels in the flywheel differ? Anyone remember?) but slightly larger plate and you'll need to replace the slave cylinder too. I'm sure that they are the same fitting onto the flywheel but I think that the release bearing carrier arm is different too. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 broken springs is often the result of a bent rear engine plate Pete clutch diag 1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hi Pete, I'll check that. Can I just put a straight edge on it? Would that have potentially been the source of the judder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: broken springs is often the result of a bent rear engine plate Pete clutch diag 1.pdf ....And that would certainly cause judder. I would suggest removing the flywheel and checking the engine plate with a straight edge. I fitted a Borg & Beck 3 part clutch to my get last year. Very smooth so far with a light pedal too. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 The flywheel is different between the spring and diaphragm clutches that looks like a later diaphragm. The flywheel looks a bit scored and very shiny so maybe worth having it skimmed. plus yes remove and check the backplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 10 hours ago, DanMi said: The flywheel is different between the spring and diaphragm clutches that looks like a later diaphragm. The flywheel looks a bit scored and very shiny so maybe worth having it skimmed. plus yes remove and check the backplate I think there are three dowels for the diaphragm and only two for the coil; I've a few spares lying about (too heavy to post!) so just select the corresponding one for the clutch and use that. Tom - if you're buying a coil spring clutch try to get the nine-spring cover rather than the six, it's not really strong enough for the 1200 although many suppliers do sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 engine plates are often gorilla damaged by odd years of gearbox on /off and the likely misaligned attempts to refit the plate is fine if left alone from human ingress a tip i use to refit , when youre close and have engagement and a decent gap get a stick of timber ,poke it in the gap all round and you can easily judge if the clutch hsg is aligned with the back plate, where as just looking gives a false sense of its ok when its miles out then jack engine and waggle g box to get a accurate line up in in she goes dont rely on eyes and brain alone pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 The current aftermarket option of alloy engine plates has worried me for just that reason. I relatively spent quite a sum of $ getting the front plate professionally straightened it had obviously been accident damaged/kinked Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Right chaps. Mine is a 9 spring unit, 2 dowells. close inspection reveals a potential hot spot on the pressure plare and some hairline cracks (see pic ) I suspect some localised heating has been taking place at this point? the flywheel looks a bit grotty, but remember it has sat for 8yrs or so, but it is as smooth as a baby's bum almost mirror smooth. I will remove the flywheel this afternoon to check engine plare. I have always been a fan of sticking with original parts so my gut is too stick with the spring clutch, also I have enough on at the momant and unless conversion to diaphragm is a straightforward affair I'd rather just stick with original. I won't be doing big miles or hammering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 i would de graze the ever so shiney to a bit more dull use a orbital sander to bust the shine too much shine gives more likely slip the heat cracks on the pressure plate are from a long time ago and possibly from a worn disc in the past its unlikely normal slip times would crack up the plate it can be affected by having a diaphragm disc fitted which is thinner and this gives you a heavy pedal and less clamp load = more slip time = more heat pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Tom said: Right chaps. Mine is a 9 spring unit, 2 dowells. I've always wondered how feasible it is to recondition these covers? The springs are similar to valve springs, so I'm wondering if you could locate similar springs and refit those, thereby only needing a new clutch plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 much of the spec is in the WSM but no detail , you would need a spare flywheel , dial indicator and a press using a load cell so you can measure loads /lift for both pressure and release hysteresis and a dummy disc /or three 0,305" sized buttons pressure springs are 3 @ 90/100 lbft and 6 @ 75/85lbft doesnt give the the @ length its all a bit complicated to attempt DIY and if you reface the pressure plate you need to play with the settings to get the release height correct now its all changed without upsetting the clamp and release loads all a bit of a nightmare not a task you can succeed on a wing and a prayer , unless youre stuck in the middle of the desert and need to get home its best left alone even under house arrest Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 57 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: its best left alone even under house arrest Pete Pete, you should know by now... never ever post something like that where I can read it... But you mean it's not just a case of wheeking new springs in and job done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Ok, yes that all sounds a bit complicated. Flywheel came off no probelm, have a feeling the bolts sound have tab washers, mine didn't. took the glaze off with some fine..ish emery wrapped eround a V block to keep it flat, worked a treat, there is no scoring. engine plate has no impact damage and putting a good quality steel rule across it in many directions revealed it to be almost 100% flat, there was a very small amount of 'unflatness' towards the bottom right hole, I could just slip a 3thou feeler gauge where the hole is. I can't imagine that would cause any issues with a big super ridging cast bell housing attaching to it! I also cleaned the bell housing mating surface as it had some blobs of paint that had run over onto the mating surface. I think it all looks good, tempted to order the clutch kit and get it bolted together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 at least you know where you are starting from with known conditions dont forget to fit the slave pushrod clevis you wont do it easy if the box is fitted new clutch kit sounds a plan pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Pete, you should know by now... never ever post something like that where I can read it... But you mean it's not just a case of wheeking new springs in and job done? Colin save you ponderings for the TR7 Ha! I spent many happy hours testing /rejecting clutches supposedly remanufactured by unwitting supposed professional companies that thought shiney and black was all there was to it....... a right nightmare . pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 As you have said Pete the key will be finding a decent kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just a thought, what is the hole on the end of the clutch release arm for arm ? It also has a hole in the bell housing directly behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 The flywheel to crankshaft bolts don't have spring washers or tabs. I always put them back with Loctite and torque as per workshop manual. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 the hole in the arm is surely for the slave cyl pushrod ,. and clevis Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 15 hours ago, Tom said: Just a thought, what is the hole on the end of the clutch release arm for arm ? It also has a hole in the bell housing directly behind. You mean right out at the end of the arm? Early cars had a lever there for adjustment of the clutch arm from outside the bellhousing, but I think with improved clutch and engine technology it became unnecessary, so the lever went but the hole remained. I still remember older drivers talking about having the clutch 'tightened up'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 youve got it Colin. I couldnt picture a 4cyl slave , . must try harder !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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