Rear tub "Spread" Dimension?.

[PeteH]

Hi

Been trawling, as I thought there was a posting way back which gave an approximate dimension for the Rear tub width?.

Anyone know where it might be? OR the measurement across the top of the "B" posts on a convertible?

I am trial fitting the doors and Bonnet after a lot of steel has been put back into the two tub sections and the door fit leaves a discrepancy at the top of the Door with the bottom in line?. If I adjust the door to suit the opposite happens!. and I lose the correct "line" at the top where the bonnet closes.

[Pete Lewis]

top flange on the B post waist was around 46.5"  its not quoted anywhere official , its just what some of us have found/used is about right 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Mine is currently sitting about 48 and I'm still trying to get it back to 46.5 with the aid of huge ratchet straps. The passenger side is more or less fine now but the driver's side won't play ball. If the tub pulls in - and the top measurement, B-post flange to B-post flange reaches 46.5 - the bottom of the door comes into line but now sits in too far at the top. I had thought about shimming the top door hinges out but this affects the line of the quarterlight to the screen pillar, plus the fit of the bonnet to the doors. The biggest problem is pulling one side only; I've tried a ratchet at a diagonal from the bottom of the B post on the passenger side to the top at the driver's side but this still puts strain on the passenger side, which I want to keep as it is. Once I release the ratchet strap, the driver's side jumps back out again to where it was. The photo shows the passenger side under tension; when released it sprang out slightly and is at present quite good. The other side is still a problem and work is on-going. 

[Pete Lewis]

yes you have to over pull a lot to get it to stay  where you want it the dimension doesnt matter that much its just pull till the door flushes up to the B post 

as thats whats youre looking for rather than some obscure dimension 

Pete

[PeteH]

Hi

I was thinking (Never a good idea!) that If I "overcooked" it it would be harder to get back in line. Hence the ask for any particular dimension to work to. I still have the Driver side to set up. But it`s too close the the garage side to work on until I move it, and that requires me moving the Motorhome from in front of the garage door!, and the trailer behind it and the car in front of them both!. I suspect the more "desirable" dimension would be the Bottom of the B post on one side to the Top on the other as being both equal?. (within reason). Bearing in mind at some point the "pram" cover has to go back and fit.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

I suspect the more "desirable" dimension would be the Bottom of the B post on one side to the Top on the other as being both equal?. (within reason). Bearing in mind at some point the "pram" cover has to go back and fit.

The 'more desirable' dimension is the doors fitting flush at the bottom, so you can adjust the tub until you reach that point; it may not be the same for every Herald. The first two photos below are the passenger side before adjustment, and after... I may have overdone it slightly as the door is very slightly 'in' at the bottom but the striker still needs to be adjusted. The third photo is the driver's side, currently still in that position and reluctant to reach a point where it will stay put; however it may be the door itself that is a large part of the problem.

Edit: it's not the door! I fitted one from the convertible as a test, and it sits out exactly the same amount at the bottom. so: doors are good, tub is spread.

   

[PeteH]

Hi

 The panel gaps alignment:- nt are:-

As you can see some work needed yet!.

Thumbs.db

[68vitesse]

The Vitesse I drive I ended up cutting and rewelding one of the hinges to get doors to fit well enough, the long term project I reskined the doors but have not yet welded them so can twist them to line up before welding.

The red car, first picture, is the one I drive the blue, second picture, is the project, the blue ones boot lid is a tight fit so pulling in the b posts might improve that.

Regards

Paul

 

[daverclasper]

Hi. There was an article in the Bond bit of the Courier a few months back, where a sliver (depending on the tub spread?) was ground out from the bottom, inward bit of the B post. Post pulled inward to suit and then welded up.

Maybe, a more simplistic and less creaky of the old bones (car and us), way of doing this?.

Dave    

Edited July 8, 2020 by daverclasper

[PeteH]

Hi.

Thanks for the measure. Whilst I appreciate it is only a guide. It does give a clue as to if the amount of steel I had to replace in the floors and Cills has distorted other parts. One of the issues, I suspect, is the probability that the doors have been replaced or re-skinned sometime in the past?. The profile where it meets the Bonnet, for example, has discrepancies. I have done a partial repair to the bottoms only, but which still does not guarantee accuracy.

Slitting and re-welding the bottom of the "B" post, will/would be a last resort, but perhaps worth consideration.?

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

paul  the taper bonnet to door wants the front of the bonnet raising 

most pictures show the slotted supports  under the overrider  upside down , you want the slots on the frame and the hole for the tube pivot , 

parts list shows them this way . makes more sense so the pivot is fixed point the link moves height   on the slots 

pete

[PeteH]

Hi. This is what I have, to get a line on the door, without losing the line on the bonnet or the bottom of the Door I needs to move in about 3 to 5mm at the top.

I have a 10tonne rated "Spanstrap" somewhere which I might try first. and the hopefully, if successful, I can do similar with driver side?.

[Colin Lindsay]

25 minutes ago, PeteH said:

I have a 10tonne rated "Spanstrap" somewhere which I might try first. and the hopefully, if successful, I can do similar with driver side?.

It all depends on what you anchor it to - the trick is to pull each wing in by the required amount; and then to stop pulling on the wing that has reached the optimum point whilst still exerting force on the other. They may not both move, which is a problem. My passenger side moved in  to almost perfect but the other side still springs back when released. I tried anchoring one end of the strap to the post of a car lift and it simply pulled the car across the floor, sideways. 

I'm debating making up a metal brace which will attach to the floor - maybe to the centre tunnel seatbelt mounting point, and so screw through to the chassis - that will brace the passenger side and allow the driver's side to pull inwards.

[PeteH]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

It all depends on what you anchor it to - the trick is to pull each wing in by the required amount; and then to stop pulling on the wing that has reached the optimum point whilst still exerting force on the other. They may not both move, which is a problem. My passenger side moved in  to almost perfect but the other side still springs back when released. I tried anchoring one end of the strap to the post of a car lift and it simply pulled the car across the floor, sideways. 

I'm debating making up a metal brace which will attach to the floor - maybe to the centre tunnel seatbelt mounting point, and so screw through to the chassis - that will brace the passenger side and allow the driver's side to pull inwards.

My "plan" in the loosest sense, would be to put the spanstrap around the body of the car and via the open (opposite) door and back to itself, Its more than long enough. Time will tell whether that will be successful!. Maybe even later this afternoon.

Pete.

[Pete Lewis]

make sure someone is watching the opposite  sill etc , as you dont want to fold it inwards whilst watching the B post 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

make sure someone is watching the opposite  sill etc , as you dont want to fold it inwards whilst watching the B post 

That's what came into my head, too... one part of the car is pulling against another and the weaker may not necessarily be the B post. That's why I want to pull against something static, so that all of the force is directed against the part I want to adjust. 

[PeteH]

Hi

Well an afternoon of Pulling and adjusting various parts has had some success. The Cill stood up well to the pulling with a wooden block for support.

The remaining issue is the gap between the bonnet and the door, the Bonnet is at it`s highest setting at the front and is flush with the scuttle at the top, I am wondering if Either the door has been replaced with another (white) one? or has been re skinned at some point with the resulting apparent discrepancy. I have tried adjusting the door, but doing that to satisfy the front/bonnet gaps, makes the rear door gap worse!. I may try adjusting the packing under the tubs to see if that improves things.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

You would think that the way to treat that gap at the top of the bonnet is to shim the bulkhead at the front so that it slopes backwards and therefore allows more room for movement along the base of the windscreen; but this then moves the doors back closer to the B-posts and if you move them forward, they hit the base of the screen pillar. Factory instructions were to get the bulkhead and bonnet right, gap the doors to that, then slide the bulkhead on to allow a 3/8" gap at the B-posts. Easier than it sounds...

[Pete Lewis]

we have a local Vit thats almost monocoque  ............the baulk head sills and  rear tub are all welded as one heck knows where that disaster was conceived

and the Bhead needs tipping forwards to get the screen away from the   NDV glass frame

  nice tidy door shuts and sills   Hmmmmm!!!! 

pete

[ahebron]

On 07/07/2020 at 23:08, PeteH said:

Hi

I was thinking (Never a good idea!) that If I "overcooked" it it would be harder to get back in line. Hence the ask for any particular dimension to work to. I still have the Driver side to set up. But it`s too close the the garage side to work on until I move it, and that requires me moving the Motorhome from in front of the garage door!, and the trailer behind it and the car in front of them both!. I suspect the more "desirable" dimension would be the Bottom of the B post on one side to the Top on the other as being both equal?. (within reason). Bearing in mind at some point the "pram" cover has to go back and fit.

Hi PeteH 

i overcooked mine when I did it but because I was using hydraulics on each side I was able to push it back out.
I did split the join forward of the rear deck under the side windows of my saloon though and I have to deal with the rear wings catching the boot lid at some stage.
I might try using the hydraulic ram to push them apart a wee bit.

Adrian

[PeteH]

Getting the "shuts" to look half decent, is akin to playing 3 dimensional Jigsaw building!. Move one and 3 others are out of kilter, rectify one of those and 4 more errors appear!. I may have a "play" with the packing under the tubs later on, Using scrap laminate at first, then when I`m happy with the result I`ll turn and drill some alloy "washers" as permanent Packing.

And then, start all over again when I get access to the driver side!.

I am (even) tempted to weld some steel to the edges of the gaps and Finish with filler (horror!), I may resort to that if this saga goes on too long!..

Pete

[PeteH]

5 hours ago, ahebron said:

Hi PeteH 

i overcooked mine when I did it but because I was using hydraulics on each side I was able to push it back out.
I did split the join forward of the rear deck under the side windows of my saloon though and I have to deal with the rear wings catching the boot lid at some stage.
I might try using the hydraulic ram to push them apart a wee bit.

Adrian

Trouble might be the area there looks a tad more fragile?. getting it braced, to stop crushing, might be more of a challenge?. Fortunately, I took the boot lid off (unlike most of the rest, which came as a "kit of parts"), so I know that should fit OK.

[PeteH]

11 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

You would think that the way to treat that gap at the top of the bonnet is to shim the bulkhead at the front so that it slopes backwards and therefore allows more room for movement along the base of the windscreen; but this then moves the doors back closer to the B-posts and if you move them forward, they hit the base of the screen pillar. Factory instructions were to get the bulkhead and bonnet right, gap the doors to that, then slide the bulkhead on to allow a 3/8" gap at the B-posts. Easier than it sounds...

My issue there would be that if the B-H`d tips back the door will foul either front or rear. The gaps lower down are already quite small, 3rd pic down on Tuesdays posting shows how small that gap already is, and I haven't yet offered up the Quarter-light or Glass?.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, PeteH said:

My issue there would be that if the B-H`d tips back the door will foul either front or rear. The gaps lower down are already quite small, 3rd pic down on Tuesdays posting shows how small that gap already is, and I haven't yet offered up the Quarter-light or Glass?.

Pete

That's why I phrased it: 'you would think' as it seems the obvious way to go, but it's not the solution.

13 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

we have a local Vit thats almost monocoque  ............the baulk head sills and  rear tub are all welded as one heck knows where that disaster was conceived

I've been searching for photos of a white 1360 convertible I looked at a few years back; there were no seams at all, even round the rear valences. Everything had been filled in with a kind of resin and painted over. It reminded me of a boat.

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

That's why I phrased it: 'you would think' as it seems the obvious way to go, but it's not the solution.

I've been searching for photos of a white 1360 convertible I looked at a few years back; there were no seams at all, even round the rear valences. Everything had been filled in with a kind of resin and painted over. It reminded me of a boat.

As you say, it would seem logical.?

Your white 13/60, sounds like a throwback to what the yanks used to do with their "custom" jobs back in the 60`s. filling all the seams and gaps even Welding up Doors and climbing in over the top of them ("General Lee" style).