chrisbladen Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, johny said: Its true the sump bolts go into the seal housing which has to be removed to replace the seal and the risk is that the sump gasket will be damaged during removal. Also I see in my manual that the seal is supposed to be centralised with a special tool before bolting down the housing however I didnt use one and my seal has been fine... I think the scroll type seal is the one that has to be centralized. Iv read that once you have installed the lip type seal which i will have, that a few turns of the crank ensures it is centralized. In regards to the sump, i have a slow leak from this anyway so il be changing the sump gasket while im at it 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Its a GT6/Vitesse 2L manual so definitely for a lip seal but your right, the housing doesnt weigh much and with a bit of care it should self centralise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 to centralise a scroll wrap some feeler strip around the journal an oil seal , a light smear of grease to aid refit and it should self centralise by itself at least getting the sump off( if you have to) on a 4 cyl wont take as much tea as doing a 6cyl !!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Pete is a 1500 Spit likely to have a scroll or lip seal? That could change Chris' plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, johny said: Pete is a 1500 Spit likely to have a scroll or lip seal? That could change Chris' plan... Early spits had a scroll and later had a lip seal. Mines a 1977 1500 so it will be a lip seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, chrisbladen said: Early spits had a scroll and later had a lip seal. Mines a 1977 1500 so it will be a lip seal yes definitely scroll up until 1965ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 best part about a scroll it cant wear out worst is park on Porlock hill and it will leak where as a lip seal works nicely everywhere .... till its worn out Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 I am sure that my 1975 Spitfire 1500 has a scroll seal. If you jack the back up high to work on the suspension, when you return from lunch there is a pool of oil with a distinctive odour under the bell housing. Shortly after the clutch starts to mis-behave. I hope that I will not be doing that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 I think were talking different seals here as Chris' problem is the crank rear seal which should be a lip seal while the gearbox input shaft seal may well be a scroll type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Yes, my mistake. The crank is a lip seal. After my experience I get very agitated when someone mentions scroll seals ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 18, 2021 Report Share Posted May 18, 2021 Ha, yes I can imagine especially if the clutch is affected! Frustrating to have to remember to drain the gearbox before jacking the rear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 you can swap a gearbox scroll by changing the front cover for one with an oil seal , as the shaft is common its the cover that has the scroll not the shaft and thats all that determines and thats a light fit in the clutch hsg. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Pete Lewis said: you can swap a gearbox scroll by changing the front cover for one with an oil seal , as the shaft is common its the cover that has the scroll not the shaft and thats all that determines and thats a light fit in the clutch hsg. Pete Thanks pete, il make sure i check which one mine has while the box is off later and change the housing if required. I think its worth doing while iv got it off. Although iv never noticed a gearbox oil leak while on a hill so it may have already been done The only place i keep getting a pesky slow leak at the box is at the speedo drive connection. Iv had it off and changed the 'o' ring, but looking at rimmers it seems theres another seal aswell so it may be that i need to have it back out and replace this aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 being 1500 i guess its single rail box you need 108757 https://canleyclassics.com/?catalogue=triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500&diagram=triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500-rear-extension-and-speedo-drive-details pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Box is out and just thought id check if it leaks if inclined so leaned it downwards slightly, went back after half hour and its leaked like a trooper so its fair to say iv got the scroll type seal still in there. Clutch disc has literally ZERO friction material left so also replacing this while im at it, along with rear crank seal, speedo oil seal and new sump gasket The disheartening fact is that After all this there will still be some kind of leak from somewhere lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 Is there a rule of thumb in that..... if it's a classic it leaks, if it doesn't leak, there's something wrong with it?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 I have never looked but per chance is there room in the scroll cover to fit a seal inside ??? just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 hours ago, chrisbladen said: Box is out and just thought id check if it leaks if inclined so leaned it downwards slightly, went back after half hour and its leaked like a trooper so its fair to say iv got the scroll type seal still in there. Clutch disc has literally ZERO friction material left so also replacing this while im at it, along with rear crank seal, speedo oil seal and new sump gasket The disheartening fact is that After all this there will still be some kind of leak from somewhere lol Really heartening to find the clutch like that though as it makes the job even more worthwhile! You could be right about the gearbox seal although even with a lip seal its asking a lot for it to hold back direct contact with oil - in service the oil is just splashing about while the shaft is spinning and better supported... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, johny said: Really heartening to find the clutch like that though as it makes the job even more worthwhile! You could be right about the gearbox seal although even with a lip seal its asking a lot for it to hold back direct contact with oil - in service the oil is just splashing about while the shaft is spinning and better supported... It certainly is, it makes being stuck in a tight space in the footwell, fighting with the gearbox all the more worthwhile! And yes i agree, il just have to make sure i dont park facing downhill on a ridiculously steep hill lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 Update... Flywheel and back plate removed which has confirmed the crank seal has been leaking so thats a positive. However, it looks like the core plug has also been leaking, which iv read am a right ball ache to get out with the engine in the car. Iv also read to cover the sealing edge in some sort of lock tight before fitting a new plug. Im just hoping that this is the source of the water and not what appears to be slight corrosion on the block directly underneath the core plug 🤦♂️ I think talc left for a while to confirm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 i have a love of loctite 574 dont use any slippy silcon stuff on a core plug they need to Grip Im pretty sure that leak will be the plug not a block problem its quite common but with the gearbox out you have better than normal access to remove the little sod Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: Im pretty sure that leak will be the plug not a block problem its quite common but with the gearbox out you have better than normal access to remove the little sod I agree, (and also pray) that this is the case lol And yes thats true its mush better finding all these issues now while the box is off Plan is, replace all seals, gaskets and this plug, re fill oil and water and before i replace the back plate il run the engine get it nice n warm n check everything while il b able to see it all... theres no reason not to do this is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 I take it the first picture is after its all been cleaned up Chris? Its unusual as the plug looks in really good condition and I dont think thats one of the higher risk plugs. Running the engine without a backplate isnt recommendable or necessary as you could just refill with coolant and pressurise the system with air. Ive rigged up a hand pump to the radiator vent pipe before and then pumped up to the cap rating. You can then leave it overnight if you like to see if theres any leakage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 Yeh the top pic is after iv wiped away all the old gunk and brown water. I dried it up and checked it after half an hour to see if i could see a trace of where it is originating. Nothing doing after half hour so il check in the morning. On the 2nd pic theres a slight brown mark just under the bottom lip of the plug which is where im hoping its originating, but then again this could just be wheres its pressed up against the back plate and built up. The reason i wanted to run the engine is because then i can check the new core plug but also all the oil seals and gaskets that i will have replaced, whats the reason its not advisable to run it without the back plate bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted May 21, 2021 Report Share Posted May 21, 2021 well you need the backplate to attach the starter motor unless youve got some other way of spinning the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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