djn Posted August 14, 2021 Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) Hi, Has anyone had any issues with Bastuck mainshafts for type d OD vitesse/gt6 gearboxes. My second gear cog & bush seized solid to the shaft and stripped the teeth off the layshaft cluster. Measured the Bastuck shaft and it is about 0.03mm thicker than the original. The bushes were a bit stiff to push on to the shaft when I fitted them but I assumed the original was worn and that they were meant to be a tight fit? Edited August 14, 2021 by djn didn't put correct heading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 14, 2021 Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 Sorry to hear that, it must be a right mess☹️ The free to download Triumph workshop manual indicates the max shaft diameter for second gear as 22.194mm and minimum clearance for the bush of 0.031mm. Please let us know what you find... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 Will check when I get a chance. A cheap micrometer but good enough to check there is a difference between the old & new shafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 Hi Johhy. Original shaft measures 22.175mm, Bastuck shaft 22.215mm.Thanks for the info. Waiting on a replacement gearbox to see what parts I can use for rebuilding. Will let you know how I get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 I would get onto Bastuck and see what they say as it looks like their shaft could have eaten well into the minimum clearance and that would probably explain the seizure. I take it the gear also seized on to the bush but this could have been due to the heat generated by the initial problem. The manual says the bush can come with an ID of up to 22.5mm so in theory you could find one for the Bastuck shaft that would just achieve a clearance of greater than 0.031mm. Of course then you would also have to check the clearance is ok between the replacement bush and gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 Thanks. Sent an email to Bastuck. Will let you know what I hear from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Bastuck replied and said I should have checked the dimensions. No further assistance offered. Older and wiser now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Hmmm they have got a point but even so it doesnt relieve them of their obligation to ensure the item is fit for purpose. Are you supposed to hardness check the surfaces or x-ray it looking for internal cracks? Mentioning that youre discussing this on a major Triumph car club website with many people waiting to see the outcome might help them to decide whether to give you further assistance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 thats a get out response totally unacceptable you are not required to check their dimensions have had a similar reply from another very much stag supplier that the bonding on a highly expensive crank pulley damper ring has failed after 2 minutes of running "nothing to do with them" some trade resposibility stinks luckily some are very good they hang on the idea of court action costs more than its worth Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 to be honest Pete, as you well know, when building a gearbox you always have to ensure that the tolerances as indicated by Triumph are achieved. This of course involves measuring the different components and selecting the correct ones. So even if the shaft had been within the specified size range if too small a bush had been used there would still have been a risk of seizure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 No sorry scratch that! Theres an error in the metric figures of my manual but it looks like Triumph say even the smallest spec bush ID on the largest spec shaft journal diameter is acceptable. Bastuck are wrong then in saying its necessary to measure the size as if they had produced a shaft within the Triumph specification, as indicated by their use of the part number TKC923, it could safely be used with any bush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 About 5 years ago it was found that a big UK supplier had a batch of badly hardened layshafts for the TR6 gear box - not hard enough. This was brought to their attention at the time in the shop - all the stock Apprx 50 shafts) were duff. What they didn;t do was contact all the trade suppliers they had sold to and their customers - bad move !! Roll on to 2019 and the TRR PQI receive a query that a recently rebuilt GB had destroyed itself and when opened up the culprit was the soft layshaft. The GB had only run about 1000 miles. The PQI spoke to the complainants supplier and they said it wasn;t their Problem (perhaps TRading Standards would disagree) as they got it from the first big supplier. After about a month or so of lots of emails (each blaming the other) the first big supplier took the GB & OD into their workshop and rebuilt it FOC. The first big supplier went to the expense of buying a half decent hardness tester 'Rockwell C' and now check all their shafts. I'm not suggesting that the TSSC should form their own PQI (Parts Quality Initiative) - but it ain't 'arf effective. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 I can accept that heat treatment and hardness testing is fairly complicated but size! OK dimensions can change slightly during heat treatment but its very easy to check this afterwards. Surprised at Bastucks attitude and I wonder if they dont supply other parts stockists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 You could try a small claims court? All done on line, and not overly expensive. Though ifnpurchased on a credit card, just put in a chargeback claim saying supplier refuses to acknowledge they sold something not fit for purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 Isnt Bastuck German though? Might be complicated in the SCC.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 Don't forget that you can also possibly claim if you paid by debit card. Read here... https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/visa-mastercard-chargeback/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Hi, Thanks for the various responses. I sourced a spare non-overdrive gearbox from triumphspitfirespares which seems to be in very good condition. I used the internals and built them round another OD mainshaft which has slight wear on the tip. I am hoping a good machine shop can salvage the bastuck shaft by grinding it to the correct tolerances and hopefully rebuild the box over the winter with the salvaged or another replacement od mainshaft. Any recommendations of a source for a good mainshaft would be helpful. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 I believe the shaft maybe case hardened ie only hardened to a depth of a few thou rather than right through so any machining might leave a soft bearing surface... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 I took a standard single rail main shaft which is longer than an overdrive shaft to my neighbors large gear manufacturing factory with the intent of shortening it, modifying & resplining it for use with a J type overdrive conversion, young Wayne tested the case hardening and advised it was too hard to be modified! His advice was the case hardening WAS very hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2021 Hi, I enclose my correspondence with Bastuck Dear Sir,Thank you for the message. We are not aware of any problem with the shafts so far. When mounting the shaft, always check the clearances. If this had been done correctly, the problem would have been detected immediately and no damage would have occurred. Of course, you could have returned the shaft or adjusted the Bush accordingly. Perhaps the problem was not with the shaft but with the installed bush.Please accept our apologies. Unfortunately, we cannot help you.Kind regardsTeam BastuckAndré KronbergNachrichtentext:Hi, I bought one of your type D overdrive gearbox mainshafts for my Vitesse gearbox. The 2nd gear bush & cog seized onto the shaft. Measured your shaft and it is slightly over the recommended max diameter (22.215mm). Max should be 22.194mm. Gearbox badly damaged. Can you help. Advised to contact you by TSSC member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 26, 2021 Report Share Posted August 26, 2021 I think now is the time to get a bit nastier with them! The shaft isn't within the correct tolerance so isn't suitable for use in a Triumph gearbox as advertised... The permitted journal size range is 22.182 to 22.194 so their item is a long way oversize and its their responsibility to identify this not yours! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted August 26, 2021 Report Share Posted August 26, 2021 DJN - How did you pay for this. I think that now is the time to put the matter in your credit/debit card company's hands. You have a letter/message of deadlock saying that Bartuck cannot/will not help so now you write to your card company or PayPal or whoever, using one of the many template letters available. The payment company will reverse the payment and deal with the complaint. You may even be able to use the 'Resolver' facility via Money Saving Expert. Do not let them get away with this. It is an item of unmerchantable quality and as mentioned previously, it is not your responsiblty to check that their specialist work has been done to the required standard (you do not have the testing facilities to do so) and must assume that the work was done to the required standard as there was no indication on the return of the shaft that work was not carried out as instructed. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 Thanks for all the advice. I will have a go at getting a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 This certainly is a worrying thread but fits in with the poor quality of aftermarket parts weve been hearing about more and more recently. With mechanical components if the correct dimensions cant even be supplied what hope is there for the actual metal properties? As I say the same manufacturer is usually used by many of the various suppliers so often its no good just going somewhere else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted September 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 Found this on the web recently. https://www.triumphexp.com/forum/spitfire-and-gt6-forum.8/j-type-od-for-spitfire-vs-gt6.1332997.1854586/page-3#msg-1854586 First post on page 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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