Herald engine with twin HS2 carbs

[Martin M]

Hi,

friend has a onother mate´s Spitfire in his workshop. Many things had to be corrected from the work of talented previous owners. Now. There is a GE engine in the car. Herald 1360. But with twin HS2.

Does anybody drive such a combination? If yes, which needle and is the crank pressure from the valve cover connected to the carbs?

Cheers

Martin

 

[Josef]

Yes, I have exactly that setup! GE engine, rebuilt at some point as it’s got plus size pistons but otherwise standard as far as I’m aware and twin HS2s. I have the standard (for the carbs as they’re Spit IV I think) AAN needles. The crankcase breather is just vented via a tube down through the engine bay, and the two breather tubes on the carbs are joined by a short bit of hose. I bought it like this in 2007 and it’s run happily ever since (with maintenance of course!)

Only problems I’ve ever had with them have been the float valves and floats degrading cause of ethanol, so I’d suggest replacing those with ethanol proof versions as a matter of course.

[Josef]

I had considered switching to Spitfire Mk3 spec BO needles as the FD engines are closer to the GE than the later ones, but figured it currently ain’t broke so…

[Badwolf]

I have the same set up. As for what's inside, sorry can't help. Carbs are a black art to me. We have a simple relationship...they work, I don't upset them!!! No breathers on the carbs and rocker box tube down through the engine bay

[Martin M]

Thanks for your responses. Really helps.

another question: How is the position of the distributor drive gear for the 1360 Herald engine at TDC compression stroke first cylinder? I do have some manuals, but they cover only GT6 and Spitfire 1500.

Thanks

Martin

[Josef]

Well the Spitfire 1500 engine is just an evolution of the 1300 engine so the info you have about the dizzy position should still be relevant.

[Martin M]

I‘m not sure as I Know that the 1200 engine has a drive position different to the 1500 engine. Perhaps someone could have a look into the 1360 manual?

 

[Josef]

50 minutes ago, Martin M said:

I‘m not sure as I Know that the 1200 engine has a drive position different to the 1500 engine. Perhaps someone could have a look into the 1360 manual?

 

Will do when I’m back home on Monday if nobody else has found the info for you by then. 

[Martin M]

Would be great 

[DanMi]

There really is no difference between the FD (MK3) block and GE (1360) the only difference being a larger diameter bore for the cam fitted with bearings on the FD but no bearings on the GE. The MK3 cam will fit in the GE just runs direct in the block without bearings. So really knowing the engine block came from a herald really doesn't help after 50+ years you really need to know the spec of the cam. The only other real difference between the 2 was the cam was hotter on the mk3 spit. The early mk4 used the same cam as the mk3 but was replaced with a milder large journal cam in about 1971. So to really help I would need to know if it has a herald or spitfire camshaft. The valves were also different the spit had retaining collets but the herald had a figure of 8 arrangement. The 1500 uses a Lucas distributer the 1200/1300 Delco Remy so the position of the drive gear is different on the 1500. What distributer does it have, I'm guessing a spit delco for the tacho drive. You would also need to look at the carbs as MK3 had fixed needles and MK4 had spring biased which are not interchangeable, though you can get the equivalent richness.

[Martin M]

It is a standard 1360 GE Herald engine. With a Delco distributor.

[NonMember]

23 minutes ago, Martin M said:

It is a standard 1360 GE Herald engine. With a Delco distributor.

A standard 13/60 would have had a Lucas 25D distributor. The Delco (with tacho drive) was used on Spitfire.

[Clive]

This is all very complex. As the 13/60 and mk3 spit engine are mainly the same (as indicated above) the distributter really wasnts to match the cam/head/CR, so best would be a 1360 distributer. No idea how close a delco curve is. Or was when fresh from the factory.

And the twin carbs are not going to magically make any more power, especially as any spitfire needles will not be correct (remember, different cam/head/CR) so really needs it all putting on a rolling road.

Of course, twin carbs look faster..... but even when fully optimised a twin setup (on a std 1500) produces only couple bhp more than a single carb fitted (and optimised on the rollers)

[Josef]

As to the distributor drive gear position: I’ve looked through my factory reprint WSM that covers the Heralds, Spit 1-3 and Vitesse and it makes no reference to differences in drive gear positions. Same for the Autobooks manual I have that covers Spit 3, IV, and 1500. Attaching some photos of illustrations that might help you (and one of the Spitfire vs Herald valve fixing differences as it’s been mentioned above).

[Martin M]

Thanks for all your help

Martin

 

 

[Badwolf]

As far as I was concerned, when my engine was swopped from a Spitfire to a 13/60, (which I didn't realise until 30 years ish later), all the ancillary stuff was just bolted on to the replacement. Just shows what gets done when you don't have a clue!!! Now I have no idea what was one the original engine and what came as part of the replacement. No wonder spares are a nightmare. I only found out when the spares supplier asked me for the engine number, which was a GE.

[Richard B]

Just found this topic. Really interesting for me as I'm currently trying to achieve basically the same set-up as Josef on my 1360 Estate. HS2 carbs currently in pieces with the bodies away being bored for bushes. I decided on specifying AAP needles rather than AAN only because they are closest profile to the Mk3 spit BO needles, but the sprung type. Doubt it will make much difference ultimately but much anorak fun looking at the needle charts on the Burlen website. Newman road cam just fitted.

Having considered the air filter options, I'm inclined towards a Mk3 air box with standard filters as seems to be the case on Josef's car. Would anyone know if the engine side panel needs any mods/tweeks for it all to fit?

[Colin Lindsay]

24 minutes ago, Richard B said:

Would anyone know if the engine side panel needs any mods/tweeks for it all to fit?

The 13/60 side panel has quite a tight cutout for the air filter box, so with the longer box it might need a bit of adaptation; having said that, the Spitfire box is longer and slimmer. You might just get away with it if it's able to fit in behind the side valence, but hard to say until you compare - I've seen Heralds with pancake filters that fit in behind happily enough, but not sure about the actual filter box dimensions.

[Josef]

58 minutes ago, Richard B said:

Just found this topic. Really interesting for me as I'm currently trying to achieve basically the same set-up as Josef on my 1360 Estate. HS2 carbs currently in pieces with the bodies away being bored for bushes. I decided on specifying AAP needles rather than AAN only because they are closest profile to the Mk3 spit BO needles, but the sprung type. Doubt it will make much difference ultimately but much anorak fun looking at the needle charts on the Burlen website. Newman road cam just fitted.

Having considered the air filter options, I'm inclined towards a Mk3 air box with standard filters as seems to be the case on Josef's car. Would anyone know if the engine side panel needs any mods/tweeks for it all to fit?

You’re quite right, it’s a Mk3 Spit airbox with standard filters, and fits fine. I’m pretty certain my engine bay valances are unmodified. The only minor awkward thing is I can’t get a socket on the front airbox to carb bolt so have to use a spanner, but that’s not really the end of the world! If you’d like any more photos then just let me know.

I have tried to adopt an ‘if it ain’t broke’ policy with my Herald. Though when my Spitfire is up and running I would like to try finding a good rolling road for them both just to get some real data on the performance of the carb needles with modern fuels.

[Richard B]

Thanks for the input, guys. That's helped make up my mind to go for the MK3 Spit box - if I can find one. I believe there's a Parts Wanted area somewhere on this forum.......