13/60 randomly turning off or kicking back, high temps

[Quack]

Well here we are again. I knew it would only be a matter of time before i was back here asking for help! 😂

Two days ago when i was driving, about 30mph 3rd gear, my engine randomly stopped. I believe the dash lights didn't come on though, meaning the car was still 'on', but giving gas was doing nothing, but i'm not 100% on this..maybe it did turn off. Anyway with a quick flick off and on again it started.

Today again, when going up a slight hill in 3rd, the engine started kicking back, feeling stuttery like it was going to cut out again.

It also cut out randomly when i first started it up a few hours ago too.

I took a photo of the temp gauge, it had backed off a tiny bit by this point but is still worryingly high.

It is of course very hot at the moment, but i've driven in not far off temperatures for much longer and it's sat in the middle. The temp gauge i would say has over time been creeping up and up though, over the past year.

So what do we think is causing these cut outs? Is it just down to the heat? This was a very short drive, about 15 minutes and it got this hot in that time.

I must also add that i have an unresolved engine knocking issue that comes in when the car is under high load, mainly at high RPM going up or down hills, if this would effect it at all.

[Pete Lewis]

i would  look at the brush in the dizzy cap,  the points have a gap,the small flexible lead that earthes the dizzy base plate is intact,, check the coil is correct polarity 

ie  neg to dizzy   pos to ignition 

check no corrosion down the coil king lead terminal    

things like that that give intermittent outages

dont think temperatures  has any influence  on this 

kicking back ...any backfires     look for a   duff condenser  

Pete

[Quack]

Roger that will have a look through. Still concerned about the temp gauge level though!

 

 

[Quack]

Noticed the dizzy points were a bit claggy, sanded them back. I should also note that i have an electronic ignition by the way incase that makes a difference. Will go for a drive this evening up a hill and put it under a load to see how it gets on.

I've had problems with a rough idle and air/fuel mixture before that i only remedied by messing with the mixture, so i wouldn't be surprised if its clogged fuel pump or pipes.

[Pete Lewis]

blocked float needle valves by the dreaded rubber slivers  is a good contender  espcially if you have fake fuel hoses or have been messing with fuel lines 

who's electronic unit is it ???

you shouldnt need to do any messing with mixtures  once set it stays ok for years 

might be worth a check of the stromberg diaphragm for small splits 

if its baggy  to refit  wash it in petrol

Pete

[Quack]

It's an accuspark EI.

Yeah it was in a previous thread here, was getting a real rough idle and high fuel consumption, making the mixture leaner solved it, but may have just been a workaround which i suspected at the time as it was always fine and then randomly got rough. But saying that the idle has been spot on since, car is less powerful than it was before but a willing sacrifice to save the fuel money.

I checked the diaphragm earlier no splits there either

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

accuspark have had some fail  on here ,there is ascattering of failures  but there is with so many things now 

but hiccups and kick backs are normally ignition related    fueling is a bit more progressive splutter and wheeze   

Pete

[chrishawley]

Quack, I've been pondering your situ. and had a look back at the previous thread on running problems. Taking the broad view, there's such a diversity of symptoms that the it possible to make a case for all sort or prolems in all sorts of areas.

For example: 'Sudden death and revival' implies electrical failure. Could be the High Tension side, but equally well LT ('supply') side could be a culprit as well. Lumpy misfire under load could  be carb problems, or fuel supply problems or marked overheathing. So many possibilities it's hard to propose a concise line of investigation.

But here's some suggestions, bearing in mind I'm taking some fairly wide guesses:

After looking at the distributor, points condensor (etc) a possibility, for diagnostic purposes, is to hot-wire the coil i.e. simply take 12v straight down from the battery to + on the coil (removing the existing supply). If sudden death still occurs then at least that excludes supply side problems. If it abolishes otheriwse continuing SD then it points strongly to intermittment faults of the supply side wiring. Disconnect when test drive done!!

Also of possible diagnostic assistance is to insert a transparent in line, paper, fuel filter between the carb and fuel pipe. Won't cure anything but enables the fuel supply to be directly inspected. And if any debris accumulates at all that indicates for further investigation of fuel pump, fuel lines and tank.

Then there's the Accuspark unit. I vaguely think that the EI is not a true electronic system but, like the old Sparkrites, a 'points assist' system. I'd remove it simply to eliminate it from considerations. This engine should run on conventional points just fine. On my Spitfire I can switch between full electronic ignition and points-only on the fly and you'd be hard pressed to tell any difference.

Last suggestion, for now, is that it might be time to revist the carb. I remember the picture of your diaphragm and to my eyes it's shot and needs replacement. But beyond that, removal from the car and full interogation on the bench is called for. Admittedly Strombergs are not quite as simple to work on as SUs - but really not that bad. If this carb has not be apart in living memory then it wouldn't surprise me to find (one or more of) advanced spindle wear, worn needle/jet, float chamber full of debris, needle value poorly operating. Not sure about the damper spring on 13/60s pehaps someone lese could shed light on that.

All the above are guesses but I hope there's something in there of use.

[johny]

To add to Chris' suggestions higher running temperature can be cause by lean mixture OR timing too advanced (this could also give kick back). I wonder if your timing isnt right or the distributor not working correctly so that sometimes its sticking with too much advance?

You could check the timing with a strobe and at the same time rev the engine to confirm it advances and returns freely....

[Pete Lewis]

17 hours ago, Quack said:

Noticed the dizzy points were a bit claggy, sanded them back. I should also note that i have an electronic ignition

so just what is youre electronic unitsupposed to do  sounds a waste of time and best to refita condenser (if it was removed )  and as said revert to std points 

when you say claggy  is this the contact breakers or the cap terminals    .....are you still using Points  ??????????????

Pete

[Quack]

As you can see in the attached video, it now won't turn on at all today. Started earlier, went for a little drive. Came back and when it was idling it just shut off as it has been doing recently, but this time it wont turn on again. Sometimes it kicks in for a half second then just dies again.

Attempted to use some starting fluid in to the air intake but made no difference.

Pete i meant the cap terminals. I don't use a points system that's what the IE replaces. The EI is simply just a modern replacement for the points so i don't have to adjust them over time and end up stuck on the side of the road because they wear easier. I was told that IE is generally just a worthy modern upgrade, better for higher RPM and also just maintainability.

 

 

[Quack]

Im under the impression it's not electrical, going to take a look at carb and air intake tomorrow as that's where i had issues before.

EDIT: Also i tested for spark, couldn't see one at first...however i'm fairly certain there's one there, as an unfortunate little bit of copper wire jammed in my jump lead handle made a lovely connection to me, sending 12 volts across my chest from the spark plug wire to the ignition barrel! 😂

[Josef]

Since this has just started happening, and is doing so intermittently, I’d not discount an electrical issue. A bit of disturbance to a bad wire/connection caused by vibration when you’re driving is more likely to cause an intermittent fault than fuel/air, especially when it now won’t start from cold. Chris’ suggested tests would be worthwhile as they’ll let you start to systematically eliminate potential problem areas!

[Pete Lewis]

Please  you must check the coil polarity 12v   is correct  

i see you have a rec counter    electronic ???   these have been   known to interfere with some leccy units  

Pete

[Quack]

Oh yeah i will absolutely do those tests as well as everything mentioned here! I just thought since the carb has been troublesome before i should start there but yes actually, it probably is better to start with electrics.

I just started it up and it worked 4 times in a row after being sat resting for a few hours actually...which is odd and makes it even more challenging to figure out what the issue is. It seems to happen after driving a bit.

[Pete Lewis]

a reversed coil can give some realy odd and irregular problems   

i only asked about points as you mention they were claggy   fine they dont exist now   

Pete

[Quack]

Yeah i can imagine, i will check it but it's always been fine up until now so i'd be surprised if it was that, but can't hurt to check.

[chrishawley]

20 hours ago, chrishawley said:

the EI is not a true electronic system (correction)

Just to correct my erroneous comment. The system is evidently full electronic and not points-assist. Apologies for duff comment.

I had a comparable situation last year: partial failure of a (currrent) Accuspark unit giving unpredictable sudden deaths, but with revival when cool. Definitive diagnosis made by substitution with mechainical points.

[Peter Truman]

I acknowledged that the Accuspark area cheap price 25 quid there would be more potential for failure so I purchased spare units for the Vitesse Lucas and Spitfire Delco and their carried in the cars 

Maybe I should try the spare units just in case! but the old points and capacitor are also in the glove box anyway.

I don’t carry a spare for the Lumination Magnetronic in the Sprint as their 4 to 5 times the price of Accuspark

[NonMember]

15 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

I don’t carry a spare for the Lumination Magnetronic in the Sprint as their 4 to 5 times the price of Accuspark

They may be expensive but I have seen them fail.

[Pete Lewis]

touch wood i used aldon on the vit 6 for 15 years and the 2000 has lumenition for 7 years now  and just dont know they are there totally trouble free 

[Peter Truman]

I carry the old points the issue is the unusual distributor in the Sprint only the Lumination fits in it

[Pete Lewis]

we have not gone back to rotor arms witha rivet in causing the HT to earh out ????

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

reversed polarity on coils is quite a common mistake  it can run for ages then the odd things start to occur  , especially it stops , you get out kick the tyres  grumble abit and it restarts 

till the next time untill it dies completely .its caused problems for many and has been a pain for years back 

last month my son in canada came across a GT6 in a layby dead,  the owner had taken the car to all the specialist techy types  and a quick look showed the coil reversed 

swap the leads and solved  he thinks it was magic  but its a silly fault that causes real frustration 

if its correct great but on any car with stop go mind of its own its a simple worthwhile check to remember 

Pete

 

 

[Quack]

That's really interesting about the coil, what a weird situation. I'll be checking that out today, also got the old points ignition unit i can refit to check however i don't have a timing light and as far as im aware i'd have to reset the timing if i change the unit.