Door Fit

[Colin]

Here I go . . . (😉);

Firstly, I fully accept that I should have gone back to the chap to whom I gave my Herald Saloon to renovate.

After renovation, one of the main 'gains' I was hoping for was a better door fit.  

On successful door skin replacement, he sent me a video showing how easily the door shut (roof and all trim off at this point). Nice easy click shut.

I was delighted! Of course, I hoped that would remain the case, once everything had been refitted.

It turned out not to be the case. Very sensible that this chap was becoming VERY tetchy about wanting to 'finish' off the car to the level I really wanted, I felt that the detail elements remaining and outstanding were things I could probably do over time and I was glad that she was metal where metal needed to be and with a good paint coat. He even would have had me drive it from his premises without correctly functioning lights and, particularly, indicators!

So, since the draught excluder has been refitted, the rubber check-strap unit refitted, neither door opens easily or shuts nicely. I rely on window down, arm out and pull in hard from outside, effectively.

I have tried myself, on cloths and two trolley jacks, to adjust, retighten, adjust, retighten all the variables in the equation but still can't get a nice shut. I think I could improve this if I had two pairs of hands available to me, but I have to accept this I do not have.

Before my getting to it, the front pillar was hitting the rear of the rain channel. But that affected the horizontal fit lines. After my first fiddle, when pulled 'to', my driver door has taken to just hitting the lower rear door shut aperture, but is a decent fit at the rain channel area. However, it won't settle on the door catches - the rear of the door is clearly too far back and just slicing the face of the door catch and the top of that catch, has, over the years, been worn down - so there were clearly issues in the past, too. Neither does there seem to be the extent of door catch adjustment I would like.

I have bought some new door hinge gaskets - they seem very thin compared to whatever has been used is concerned. But the correct gaskets, would, I think, make the door vertical orientation correct. I have of course, been unable to adjust all the elements in this equation, tighten everything I have loosened off, then walk away to try it. What I did tends to loosen off - but I can't tighten and hold the thing in position whilst doing that!

Of course, all of this is doing nothing for the paintwork (paintwork that Club Royal Blue spray cans now seems too dark for - another minor gripe).

Would it be recommended for me (50 year old car) to change the driver's side door hinges - they are bound to be worn - AND are there any other suggestions anyone can make in order to make a decent fit?

I could, for example, ask if there is a 'thinner' draught strip round the door aperture. This was replaced on first reno works decades ago. Maybe the original was not so substantive??

Cheers!! C.

P.S. the door pillar on the passenger door seems twisted. Is that just a matter of adjustment or has it been bent (dropped in the workshop?).

[Colin Lindsay]

The quarterlight assembly on the doors can be adjusted; can you loosen it off then adjust the doors at the hinges to get a good fit against the b-post, then reposition the quarterlight to the best profile at the screen pillar?

[Pete Lewis]

door seals really do mess up the door shut it should have a single flip not a tube balloon as sold by many 

worn hinges can be a problem but can accomodate a fair bit of alignment with some hinge ajustment   the hinge gaskets are to stop rain entering via the cage plates in the A post    any sealer will also work .  there are three screws to each hinge the 3 in the door 2 bolts one countersunk screw  the idea is nip the screw and push shove the door

to get alignment when happy  nip the remaining bolts  then fully tighen the screw    this idea is used by nany makers of the day 

if the striker is not making full contact you can add grip packer gaskets to improve or  ...move the rear tub forwards !!!

as Colin says there is some shift in the non draft vent frame all the screws to carcass are big holes and flat washers including the screw in the very front edge of the door 

they give a good amount of shift but may make the drop glass stiff   its all a juggle 

take the door seals off and see hoe it now fits  

c o bains are the place to look for profiles 

pete

 

[Paul H]

Co Baines has the correct profile door rubbers . 

DX73 is what I used on my Vitesse 

https://coh-baines.co.uk/products/flexible-self-grip-rubber-side-tail-seal-1-6mm-to-3mm-panels-dx73

Paul 

[Josef]

16 hours ago, Colin said:

I have bought some new door hinge gaskets - they seem very thin compared to whatever has been used is

Making some thicker or thinner gaskets for the hinges, strikers etc as appropriate may help with fit. So in this case I would pick the thickness of gasket material that works for what you need rather than assuming whatever you’ve bought ready made is ‘right’

[Gary Flinn]

Getting the Herald/Vitesse doors to fit and shut nicely is the next worse job after trying to get the Bonnet aligned?

If you could take photo's and post that would help us get a better understanding of the problems

The correct profile door seals are important and most of the bubble type are too thick and not correct for the car anyway, the originals are a J Type profile so get some of these for a start

As stated the Door Quarter lights can be adjusted if they catch the top of the 'A' Post (Windscreen surround), but some other adjustment are necessary to get the windows to roll up and down smoothly

If the door as dropped due to Worn hinges, they can catch on the 'B' Post and top of the Door Tread plate too, new ones are available so worth swopping if worn 

I'm not sure what you mean by the Door Pillar being twisted, again photo's will help us understand but if the bottom rear of the doors stick out in relation to the lower rear wing, this is known as Tub spread and can be solved but it means removing the roof and being brutal with the bodywork, do a search on here on how to remedy it.  

I have attached the Triumph Body build up notes which is worth a read and may help you.

Regards 

Gary    

Triumph Service Training Notes Herald Body.pdf

[Colin]

Chaps: collectively . . . Many thanks ('push notifications not working still!).

For clarification (my red herring, sorry); 'tis only the passenger q'light vent which actually appears twisted. But I consider that, a seperate issue!

Re driver's door, I have often thought the'bubble' seals to be incorrect - I am really grateful for the pointer to the correct product - that, in itself, will make life so much easier, I am sure! It's always seemed to 'bounce back', not shut after these were fitted (1st partial reno, decades ago).

I also think I will invest in a set of new hinges. It is simply impossible that after 50 years of yanking, slamming and bashing that they are not worn.

As usual, chaps, grateful.

Best,

C.

[Colin]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the pdf

For some reason it won't open for me (message about content restriction!?!).

Might you please try again? Or

e-mail it to me; colinwinn1@hotmail.co.uk?

Thanks,

Kind regards,

C.

[Pete Lewis]

you can also upload from here  from Steves on line anuals    look up service training notes  

Triumph Car Service manuals - Vitessesteve

Pete

[Colin]

Lovely, chaps. 

Successful:- 2nd time round!

Best,

C.

[Pete Lewis]

the body manual doesnt include 50 yr old wonky chassis  and 50 yr old wony body solutions 

needs to add  a bucket full of  large C washers to add where needed 

Pete

 

[PeteH]

If your of the mind set. Carefull drilling of the hinges, and oversize pins. From memory it think I took mine from 3/8" to 10mm, Or maybe from 5/16 to 8mm?. using some "Stubbs" steel rod, I had laying around in the garage?. I "mushroomed" the top to stop it working through.

Pete

[Colin]

So is it only the hinge pin and pin channel which weats - is this what we're saying?

'C' washers? They are what? 😉

[Pete Lewis]

C washer  nice big washer cut to allow fitting without removing the bolt    can be handy is anumber of shim type adjustable situations like body bolts 

just slacken and slide the washer in place .

and many open up the hinge bolt holes to get more movement  , tip only hand nip the hinge bolts  as its easy to strip the caged nut plate and 

repairs can be a pig, there some decent bodges to fix but ask when its in trouble 

Pete

[Colin]

Ah ha! Thanks! 

Yes, I don't think I'm going to be drilling any 'caged' or 'captive'(?) access holes! 

I noted some of the nuts were pointy-ended - no doubt intended to allow an easier 'find-the-nut' situation!!?! 

[Pete Lewis]

Ha if you end  up finding a hinge cage nut plate has been stripped you can open all up and drill 8.3mm tap 3/8*x24unf to upsize the threads  

the cage plate is quite thin it wont take a helicoil well .

or hole saw the A post and fit a nut from inside behind the stripped cage 

you may need to get ready to practice drilling  Ha!  its a good area for a headache   

Pete

[PeteH]

I "got lucky", with a Careful bit of welding and drill and re-tap the hole. A "trick" to help locating the bolt in the hole is a Big(ish) screwdriver through one hole while you "feel" for one of the others. I`ve had a lot of practice recently doing this "solo", the doors have been on on off more often than................................ !(better not go there)😁. While trying to get the Doors to align with the Bonnet, Cill`s and still "gap something like". It`s coming but it`s a long old job!.

Pete

[Josef]

I also use the screwdriver method Pete H mentions. That and latching the door shut to somewhat hold it in place while you get at least one hinge bolt in. Though that may not work so well with the Herald style door latches. 

[68vitesse]

Hinges can be swopped top to bottom as they wear differently.

Regards.

Paul.

 

[Colin]

Funnily enough, Josef, I wondered if that might be best done with the door latched.

Pete H & Pete Lewis :- I've never tapped a thread in my life!! 

But would try to keep a 'marker' bolt or similar in a caged unit so I don't completely lose the things in their hidden locations.

I assume they (all hinge-to-door & door-to-scuttle) are plates with 2 or 3 threaded hole cut? Not individual nuts ?

C.

[Pete Lewis]

yes flat plates with 3 tapped holes  caged you cant loose them unless some scum bag has prised the cage open in a previous life 

the plates are not as thick as a nut  thats why they can get stripped if gorilla hands are at work  

the hinges can be changed  with door in place  cant remember if the to door bolts are all accessible with door shut ????

hence the idea od a screw to nip up and allow adjustment then tighten the remaining with door shut 

Pete

 

[Mark B]

Looking good. You want the car on all four wheels and on level ground when aligning panels. Gaps can change wildly when raised, vs sitting on the ground under its own weight.  

[Gary Flinn]

1 hour ago, Mark B said:

Looking good. You want the car on all four wheels and on level ground when aligning panels. Gaps can change wildly when raised, vs sitting on the ground under its own weight.  

A Good point

Also make sure the Bonnet counter balance springs are fitted, they affect the bonnet fit considerably!

Gary 

[Colin]

Cheers, People! 

I rarely take all bolts out of caged brackets without leaving one loose in. Scared of losing them. Pleased to say no Scumbag has been at their housings. Only me who's fiddled (oh - and two previous restorers! 

[Colin]

Car on level ground . . . No jacks or stands employed! 😉