Pete Lewis Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 we have a lady member that her Spitty decided to konk out on route to work and knowone has got it running , so she asked for help so one of my locals John B popped over being to have a look see lots of things in need of TLC but all he got was a single kick on cranking it would atempt a fire with quick start , all fueling clean out but no change , I met him at the car and we went through all the basics again ...still Pop and no show so in desperation swapped the 123 for a dizzy of rays old Coupe and bingo Va Va Room she runs so those experts on 123 any clues why it refuses to pass a spark , and coil and wiring all swapped to eliminate the 123 seems a basic unit (no clues ) ( the led lights ) it 2 yrs old and worked ok till the breakdown but now only gives a 1 cyl pop on cranking the 50yr old transplant dizzy fires immediately Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 I had heard that 123s can be very temperamental if their supply voltage fluctuates. Was the battery fully charged at the time of the fault? I'm no expert but it is a thought that occurs to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 yes i read about the coil voltage getting cut after 1 second which maybe suits the one pop and die episode . battery voltage when i visited was 12.5 and it had had a lots of cranking , when we got her fired up battery was showing 14.3 soon after starting so basic state seems good . the car was driving ok and just died without warning and stayed dead till dizzy transplanted . she has ordered a accuspark and we await to fit it Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 I would e mail them direct in Holland, I did when I had an issue with the usb board on one i had fell off. They were helpful. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 thanks steve i would be interested in whats gone wrong but i think this was fitted by a garage that knew very little about dinosaur cars and the mess that the basics were in means she has lost confidence in the 123 so we shall see Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 accuspark unit fitted fired up imeadiately and running fine but initial road test has now failed due to a fueling problem in the jet tube which was cleared on first twiddle event .......... its back this car is a bit of a mess oil everywhere and much misguided medling gone on its a fight to the finish there are times you wish you never started but if we can save a member thats what is all about we're on it Pete 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 what do you know the accuspark unit has a permanent line to earth so there is no triggering the coil add to fel jets having twisted tubes and 2 0 rings jammed in the chambers , simple bult test showed 12 from the coil but the dizzy doesnt trigger just earth the coil so its back to the drawing board of frustration , fit the old herald dizzy and points and away she roars so the acu unit is destined for returns ( do i hate these things ) there is little to test to prove something daft is not going on but a bulb on the dizzy line is just permanently lit so its source a used /new unit no more electronics and the thing runs a treat i wonder why we get involved witha nightmare Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 accuspark are sending out a replacement module to try thats positive Thanks so its again watch this space but with 4 visits at 40mile round trip is getting frayed with perpetual snags and poor results plague this car full of unkown misguided repairs and neglect does help Grrrrr Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 That'll be the problem Pete, they do fail as theres a lot of electronics packed into a small space and it has to deal with quite a bit of power in an arduous environment☹️ Its because of this I keep a spare module (any one will do as long as its correct polarity and you have the small allen key) in the car so if needed I can just change over the plastic encased sensor without distrubing the mounting plate and ignition timing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 Same as me I carry spare Accuspark modules in both the Vitesse and Spit just in case!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 well the new accuspark lasted less than 1/2 mile before it died The org failed 123 was about 2 yrs old if you all need to carry a spare thats not bode well for any reliability . yes they are very cheaper than the other add on's but myself had 15 yrs with Aldon and currently 8 yrs with lumenition without a single hic up seems to say it all really Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: currently 8 yrs with lumenition without a single hic up I actually can't remember when I fitted the Lumenition to the GT6 but it was at least 20 years ago. The only problem it's ever given me was when somebody disconnected the pickup harness and didn't re-connect it well enough. However, the Vitesse's one was disconnected by the PO, presumably due to a fault, and I've been running it on points for the last 20 years with no problems. (As a random aside, I made reference to that in my first published short story, "Girl on a Bike", in the "Ghosts and Demons" anthology.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 You know how the bathtub failure curve goes Pete. Accuspark/Powerspark not especially unreliable these days I dont think but it so difficult to diagnose them if they do fail and such a pain for want of a spare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 i just put a pea bulb on the coil dizzy and earth if it triggers the lamp will flash same as with points providing the coil has a feed then if it doesnt blink theres a power loss and if its on all the time the line is permanently earthed the end result is you know its wrong , more tea vicar ???? both the 123 and the accu have a permanent line to earth so no trigger for the coil to discharge its HT is dead I dont have a bathtub !!!! just a shower I could go nextdoor and test the bathtub theory but she may not be ammused Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 The problem with electronic ignition is that the open time for the electronics is just a pulse so you cant hold 12v on the coil outlet for any length of time like you can with points when open. Then I know some units have variable dwell (closed time) so dont know what effect that will have on any testing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, johny said: the open time for the electronics is just a pulse That is not universally true at all. In fact it's the closed time that's likely to be odd, in "closed loop" dwell types (which may well appear S/C on Pete's test because the bulb isn't enough load). Most of the cheap / cheerful ones are still fixed dwell and work very much like points. There are very good reasons NOT to stretch the closed time (which a pulsed open time implies) if you aren't doing closed loop dwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, NonMember said: That is not universally true at all. In fact it's the closed time that's likely to be odd, in "closed loop" dwell types (which may well appear S/C on Pete's test because the bulb isn't enough load). Most of the cheap / cheerful ones are still fixed dwell and work very much like points. There are very good reasons NOT to stretch the closed time (which a pulsed open time implies) if you aren't doing closed loop dwell. When Ive tested my accuspark units Ive never managed to get them to stay 'open' although maybe thats because Ive used a multimeter on resistance or Ive not been precise enough with the magnet but it certainly seems like a pulse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 when the replacement turns up i will do a simple does it pulse the bulb test and let you know but a permanent pea light gives no pulse and no HT its ony a semi conductor l/magnet switching unit it cant be rocket science th black dizzy link is 0ohm to earth pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 Pete the reason I carry spare Accuspark's is simply convenience & cost because when I brought them 20 years ago they were around 25 quid ea and shipping of 4 units was only marginally dearer than 1 & was a major part of the overall cost. I also reasoned if I had to replace the unit on the run I wouldn't have to retime the ignition just change the module over, if I switched back to points I'd have to retime. I still have the unused spare units one each for the Vitesse Lucas, & Delco for the Spitfire as the mounting plates are different! The Vitesse Accuspark replaced a Luminition Optic unit that failed, it's replacement cost would have been many times more expensive than the Accuspark which doesn't require a separate control box, and the small module neatly fits under the distributor cap. I have a Luminition Magnetronic in the Sprint as it fits under the std dist cap and the Accuspark won't, it requires a different dist cap which due to it's height got very close to a cylinder head stud/bolt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 I can still get Accuspark (or their look-alikes) for about 20 pounds delivered in the UK from Amazon. Obviously not for my car but as we've said the sensor can just be swopped over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 replacement module fitted and runs like a bag oof nails we have replaced checked everything that moves why this little car is so troubled we have began to give up and thats not our normal success the spark is on 10deg and stable but runs like its timing is all over the place bit like a failed condenser , pops bangs and fires out the intake wont restart looking like ign switch has a problem on its crank contacts there is some hit and miss going on doesnt explain why she dies but its in the frame for a replacement failed smiths valve diaphragm replaced tappets have a gap one carb needle seriously bent , now straight tried new RB fuel pump as old is a bit feeble but as reported many times it just flooded the carbs so its off fuel is cloudy but has addatives added ??? fitted new jets as tubes were terrible found 3 old 0 rings jammed in the bowl removed R spark plugs for BP6ES new coil runs /revs on the old herald points dizzy but not road tested need to do a compression test just to verify health have revisted this over and over as you begin to untrust your own judgement and thats unusual the thing idles but runs like apig then just stops dead we have spark and suck squeeze bang blow but the thing is resisting to the point of where are the matches Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: fuel is cloudy but has addatives added ??? Additives shouldn't make it cloudy. Could it be contaminated? Water in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 Rob we have got a can to rig a seperate supply its on the list to do , i dont like the look of it and its one common denominator not yet swapped out it had been filled and about half a tank used prior to its initial dying, she does (did ) use a lead addative it doesnt explain why a 123 and two accu seem to seriously misbehave its mech rev count so thats not interfering when it fires up it almost seems the firing order is on some random selection once its all cleared it idles and revs free nicely but under any load kaput cough splutter wheeze die if it had a condenser it would be the culprit the old herald slave works fine cant for all my years put a finger on what the heck is playing it up , but a pretty violent gremlin is at work pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 In Montreal in 67 building an oil refinery for BP I had a Renault R8 Gordini which developed conditions of power loss and backfiring it was the distributor drive cog that had somehow lost a few teeth, the Renault Agent Tricolour Garages pulled it out replaced it and the car ran great. I regretted having to give the car back to them at the end of the 8 month contract, went like stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 if the timing showed any leaps or shift i would have alook at that idea but it doesnt move a strobe on each cyl keeps steady timing Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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