123 dizzy Problem

[Steve P]

21 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

once its all cleared it idles and revs free nicely  but under any load   kaput cough splutter wheeze  die

Sounds exactly like my Herald on the 2014 RBRR, we found the cause was the small fuel link pipe under the rear of the chassis pulling in air, replaced at stupid o clock in a layby near Aberdeen using just a scissor jack. Fine after that.

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

had this from one of the grtty pipes at the pump  will add the rear one to the hate list  Ta !

Pete

[foshi]

pete you have properly already eliminated this rotor arm not fitting tightly had it on my vitesse would start up rough then run but underload  would run like on 2 pots paul

[Pete Lewis]

the rotor arm and trigger wheel are a very tight fit 

i might suggest rimmer are doing a good deal on a 1500 lucas OE dizzy  (no tacho drive ) but new OE at £54  might be a way forwards but a re run with the slave is 

back on the test run this week  to have a 123 and accu and replaced module fail is not good for the "really"  mode but its looking like she goes fine in 50yr old but 

something leccy is a No No    more later this week  

anyone got some matches 

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

well with holed emission diaphragm

bent needle 

stretched air piston spring 

a duff 123  

a duff accuspark 

an replacement pump with7psi !!!!!

tight tappets 

R suffix spark plugs 

ignition switch  crank intermitent

to days final was get rid of the cloudy fuel 

and Off she Goes 

we had suspected fuel from earlier but its cold and drizzle its not something you rush into but when you begin to doubt your own magic fingers 

you start to go a bit Grrr!!!   and dream of hot soup and a duvet  

but  all that remains now is drain out 4 gallons of cloudy 

and replace with something ....clearer 

Pete

[Steve P]

Hope all your time and effort is appreciated Pete.👍

S

[Pete Lewis]

yes  , no recompense for the miles but happy we have the blasted thing going so much to resolve and whatever you find doesnt solve much.

its been a marathon mess to sort and you start to puzzle at your own  values  , question what gorilla or muppet has been before 

and at  risk repeating yourself as doubts start to rumble in .

and cold and damp doesnt help old bodies if it continues to play dead after  a float chamber drive  we will do a runner  

none of this makes much sense   but anyone wants half a tank of cloudy fuel  let me know 

Pete    

 

 

 

[PeteH]

Worth having the "cloudy" Fuel tested?. Not the first time that water and or other fluids have found their way into filling station tanks. There was a Case up here in Yorkshire where "they" manged to fill a Petrol Storage Tank with diesel by mistake.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

as it had run ok on half of a full tank before it stopped with a dizzy fault  i wonder if some muppet has added something its not locked and out on the drive .

first questioned  the fuel as its was cloudy but with all the other things going on you tend to discount bright  ideas 

there is a lesson in volunteering for the unkown then find youre in the pit with no escape 

funnily another local has a spitty up for sale (was in courier )   cant start it,   popped over and he had the HT leads all mixed up and he has dementia well on the way 

a quick swop the leads to resemble  the firing order and moving the 40 deg advance  and she runs like a dream 

with his lack of memory and a misguided friend had cocked it up but so easy to fix  is satisfying 

Pete

 

 

[PeteH]

Pete. Sad to hear, One can only hope he gets good care now.

Dementia and Alzheimer’s are two of the worst conditions of Ageing, I would argue even worse than a Cancer?, In my view. One of the saddest in recent times was a local lady, a friend of my wife, who, in her 80`s, had severe memory loss. Same lady had been one of the Bletchley Park Team, and a Mathematician. She worked with Allan Turing during WW2. No one local knew until about 15 years ago, not even her second husband.

 

Pete

[Steve P]

21 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

i wonder if some muppet has added something its not locked and out on the drive .

Was it Yellow?.

S

[Pete Lewis]

ha    the cars  is rattle can green............        the fuel is clear but cloudy  just  does not look like petrol 

very different to the can of replacement stuff  

 

[Pete Lewis]

fuel has been drained and whats in the carbs is cloudy /watery whats in the tank drain is looking fine  a nice hint of golden colour 

refilled and once more drives off like a loony and after 500 yds splutters to a dead halt and wont restart 

John and myself are now at the verge of insanity  there is nothing else to do all the wrongs have been righted but 

there is this ritual va va room  followed quickly by complete kaput

it up for sale  anyone fancy a Mk3 in rattle can green  surpisingly rust free in most places but needs a lot of TLC to return it to a nice little car 

it needs a lot of oiling cleaning , glass channels  and such all doable if you have the inclination and a re spray  was a daily driver till all this started 

and lack of maintenance over the years followed by some heavy handed misguided garage work  

Pete

[Nick Jones]

What sort of voltage is the charging system putting out? 

Old Lucas alternators (and dynamo/regulators) sometimes put out rather high voltages and/or spikes. This tends to kill modern electronics quite quickly, though points systems usually cope unless it spike high enough to pop the condenser.

Coming from a different angle, EI systems put higher voltages into the HT systems making “leaks” from places like the rotor arm, cap and HT leads more likely.

If the fuel is murky are there any slimy biological masses in the tank that might be wandering around and randomly blocking the outlet?

[John Harris]

I have had a 123 dizzy in cars for the last 15 years or so, in a Spitfire and MGB GT V8. I have had one failure when an alternator diode failed and put nearly 20v across the dizzy. The failed dizzy was replaced by Southern Carbs. I have had no coil failure from them.The alternator on the Spitfire and MGB put out about 13 v when running. 

Problems I have seen in other cars fitted with them have arisen from two problems - poor spade connector connections on the low tension side leading to intermittent firing - this is the fault of the installer, and secondly poor fitting of the ignition leads, particularly the coil lead not pushed home enough either on the coil or dizzy cap.

If all of the above are ok the only other problem I have seen is incorrect initial timing with the green light coming on at TDC or the advance at idle in the program being set incorrectly ( sometimes in combination with the vacuum advance settings ). 

If it is a 123 dizzy with 16 pre set curves then in most cases the car will start which ever program is selected as long as the initial timing is ok, obviously it might not run well through the revs if the incorrect pre set program is used, but it will run.

If fitted correctly and there is a spark at the plugs but it is not firing, or fires then fails,  then it has always been a fuel/carb problem. 

I have used them with standard coils, sports coils and flame throwers. 

The MGB is used extensively on track days and European trips, so no shortage of vibration and heat cycles. The Spitfire recently went to the South of France. 

Happy to come and have a look if it helps. 

 

 

 

[PeteH]

The possibility of bacterial contamination is there. Many years ago marine fuel had a spate of issues caused by bacterial growth, feeding on the fuel and causing degradation of quality as well as filter blockages and other issues. Had the vehicle been standing in the heat of last summer? One of the known accelerants of growth was put down to storing fuel for long periods in heated tanks?. In the case above it took A bacterial clean of the tankage to remove the regrowth. I fully appreciate that we where dealing with a heavier fuel. But petrol comes from the same feedstocks.

Pete

[Puglet1]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

The possibility of bacterial contamination is there. Many years ago marine fuel had a spate of issues caused by bacterial growth, feeding on the fuel and causing degradation of quality as well as filter blockages and other issues. Had the vehicle been standing in the heat of last summer? One of the known accelerants of growth was put down to storing fuel for long periods in heated tanks?. In the case above it took A bacterial clean of the tankage to remove the regrowth. I fully appreciate that we where dealing with a heavier fuel. But petrol comes from the same feedstocks.

Pete

I guess one of the ways to eliminate this would be to run some fuel from a dummy fuel tank directly to the fuel pump. Many years ago I had a car that demonstrated a similar symptom to the one that you’re experiencing and it was caused by the air release hole in the fuel cap being blocked and creating a vacuum in the fuel supply. Alternatively, to eliminate the vacuum theory, you could just loosen the filler cap before your test drive?

Pete S.

 

[Pete Lewis]

we have backed off this nightmare  i have thrown all our experience at it an we have drawn a blank

so many other things were wrong but none has solved the stopping ...makes no sense , there is no silly imobiliser fitted to add to the chaos 

the replacement accuspark unit does work ok sparks the strobe on all 4 plug leads 

the 123 had a permanent black to earth so no coil trigger at all , whatever you did with it its about 2 yrs old  doesnt show any signs of programable  but does have the green led.

alternator is quite new and battery when idling is 14,5v  blown the fule system out , tank is venting and cap seal is vented fuel runs by gravity easily to the pump inlet 

fuelin tank is nice colour  fuel at carbs is cloudy  all drained and refuelled wich again worked well for 500 yds and stops

 of all the cars i have returned to life this one has been so cantankerous its lacking TLC but all the basics are iin place now 

to say ive given up is against my reputation but  this one has worn me/us down 

and its 20 miles away to add to the  5   visit costs (now totted up 200 miles )  the  enthusiasm to volunteer has dwindled 

appreciate the sugestions but we have coverd every concievable cock up and exception to get us knowhere 

it will be something daft   ... 

Pete

[Stratton Jimmer]

On 11/03/2023 at 06:01, PeteH said:

The possibility of bacterial contamination is there.

Aircraft fuel tanks are particularly prone to bacterial contamination and in order to prevent this, radioactive 'slugs' are mounted in the tanks.

[Wagger]

You have, probably, already tried converting (temporarily) back to points operated ignition. (as built). I always do that if I suspect faults with electronic igntion. Did this on a Morris Minor and the fault recurred even off the points. Had me going for ages until I discovered that the points were sticking 'Open' when everything warmed up.

[Pete Lewis]

we did use a slave points dizzy very early on which worked  and proved the 123 and accu.  were problematic but whilst it ran and revved  fully it was not driven on the destined to fail test route 

so many other things were just wrong and you live in hope everything you find will help ....NO 

Pete