GT6, larger stub axles, castellated nut and that split pin.

[Aidsaunders]

Looking to convert to the larger stub axles etc but, I see that everything is held on with a castellated nut and a split pin. My only concern is that there isn’t any way of preventing rotation of the nut but, the split pin is a lot bigger than the original one. Am I overthinking this? 

[Josef]

I’m not quite sure what you’re asking as the split pin is the thing that prevents rotation of the castle nut? There’s not any rotational force on the castle nut just vibration and expansion/contraction of the bearings to guard against.

[Aidsaunders]

There’s a cap on the original setup that resists rotation, it’s fitted before the split pin. Also, the setup is torqued up so there’s no end float. Any expansion has nowhere to go. 

[johny]

Noooooo the standard wheel bearing set up must NOT be torqued up as there's always got to be some play! Its the bane of MOT testers but unlike modern cars on ours the inner races have to be free to rotate and expand or they can overheat and seize quite quickly...

Edited September 29, 2023 by johny

[dougbgt6]

Few MOT testers are aware that .there should be play in Triumph wheel bearings, I've given up expecting them to know so, MOT day tighten up the wheel bearings, get MOT, come home, slacken off wheel bearings.

Doug

[Gully]

1 hour ago, Aidsaunders said:

There’s a cap on the original setup that resists rotation, it’s fitted before the split pin. Also, the setup is torqued up so there’s no end float. Any expansion has nowhere to go. 

There's a flat washer with a D shaped hole which sits between the castellated nut and the bearing. It locates on the flat on the threaded section to remove any rotational force on the nut itself. The nut is not torqued to prevent it moving - it's tightened, then backed off, with the split pin then preventing it moving from the set position.

When my GT6 was MOT'd last year, the chap who does it had an apprentice with him and he was explaining to him the need for movement on the taper bearings.

Gully

[Aidsaunders]

People are getting mixed up here. The CC big stubs don’t have a d washer, castellated nut and split pin only. They do require that the nut is fitted to a torque too. The only thing preventing rotation is the split pin. 

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, Aidsaunders said:

There’s a cap on the original setup that resists rotation, it’s fitted before the split pin. Also, the setup is torqued up so there’s no end float. Any expansion has nowhere to go. 

Never saw that on our cars, but have just rebuilt the front bearings of a 1980s Ford Fiesta and it had one. On ours the split pin should fit between the 'teeth' of the castellated nut and hold it in place but for some reason the Ford has the split pin quite a distance away from the nut, so requires the overcup with the teeth extensions to stop it unwinding.

On the CC Uprated Stub axles they appear to have the same castellated nut as the original versions, just looks beefier?

[dougbgt6]

4 hours ago, Aidsaunders said:

There’s a cap on the original setup that resists rotation, it’s fitted before the split pin. Also, the setup is torqued up so there’s no end float. Any expansion has nowhere to go. 

 

41 minutes ago, Aidsaunders said:

People are getting mixed up here. The CC big stubs don’t have a d washer, castellated nut and split pin only. They do require that the nut is fitted to a torque too. The only thing preventing rotation is the split pin. 

So what do you mean by the original set up? 

Doug

[johny]

oh are we talking about the after market shimmed wheel bearing set up here? I wish things had been explained a bit better😒

[Gully]

If you mean this set up: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-RG1320 , then the split pin holds the castellated nut. Does that outer race rotate on the stub axle and move against the nut? Who knows...

Gully

[Colin Lindsay]

In any version we don't have one of these, which is what I took to be the 'cap' from the posts above:

 

[johny]

Nice product from Rimmers but surely at that price they come with instructions or at least some help from them? I would imagine theyre modern bearings where the inner races are pulled up tight, using a spacer between them, by the torque of the castle nut before the split pin is put in - no need for any cap ....

[Aidsaunders]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

In any version we don't have one of these, which is what I took to be the 'cap' from the posts above:

 

My mistake there, indeed no cap. But there is no D washer on the CC kit. 

[Aidsaunders]

Has anyone fitted this kit and been able to fit both split pins (o/s & n/s) without backing the castellated nut off to align it to a pin hole? One of mine required this. 

[JohnD]

2 hours ago, johny said:

Nice product from Rimmers but surely at that price they come with instructions or at least some help from them? 

With respect, Johnny, if you need instructions from Rimmer's......

Do you get them if you buy parts from any modern dealer?  Did you ever?   That's what the Work Shop Manual is for!

John

Edited September 29, 2023 by JohnD

[johny]

But John this is a non standard after market component so therell be nothing in the WSM and then surely its all down to the manufacturer/supplier to specify the installation procedure?

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, Aidsaunders said:

Has anyone fitted this kit and been able to fit both split pins (o/s & n/s) without backing the castellated nut off to align it to a pin hole? One of mine required this. 

Is that with the felt washer fitted? Usual scenario with those on a standard setup is that you torque the hub up without it fitted, then fit it and replace the nut to the same position as before, otherwise the felt will mess up the hub fit.

[Pete Lewis]

this kit does not have the felt the bearings are sealed for life

why you need  this is on my  up grade  must  not have   list  

the standard design has only lasted 50 years whats not to like 

as for torque the castle nut why dont they just use a nylock like ford and many others do 

dont forget the stub as original had two pin holes   i guess the uprated one does not !!!!!

its a nice upgrade with the headache that goes with it 

Pete

 

[Aidsaunders]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

this kit does not have the felt the bearings are sealed for life

why you need  this is on my  up grade  must  not have   list  

the standard design has only lasted 50 years whats not to like 

as for torque the castle nut why dont they just use a nylock like ford and many others do 

dont forget the stub as original had two pin holes   i guess the uprated one does not !!!!!

its a nice upgrade with the headache that goes with it 

Pete

 

Pete, is there an anti-rotation (D hole) washer on the Ford nyloc setup? 

[johny]

I dont think the exact nut torque really matters too much as long as the inner races and their spacer are clamped up to stop any chance of them rotating and then whack the split pin in...

[Colin Lindsay]

If you've ever seen the state of a 'normal' washer after some miles, you'll appreciate why they used a 'D' washer. It gets mangled!

[Pete Lewis]

do ford use a d washer???     just dont remember it was 1986 when had one ...not for long 

pete

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

do ford use a d washer???     just dont remember it was 1986 when had one ...not for long 

pete

No D washer, just a normal washer, nut and nut retainer.

[Aidsaunders]

5 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

No D washer, just a normal washer, nut and nut retainer.

A nyloc nut and a nut retainer?