Stratton Jimmer Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 Hi Folks, My GT6 Mk3 - early rotoflex has a misaligned bracket on the rear suspension which needs to be replaced. Canley show the part as being adjustable. My question is simply, why does it need to be adjustable? A further question - is this bracket simply welded on to the chassis? REAR WISHBONE BRACKET ROTOFLEX LH - ADJUSTABLE Part No. 215747 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 Any I've seen are welded in place, but maybe the pre-welding positioning is the adjustment? They're made to allow a degree of movement and positioning before being welded? Just debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted December 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 That sounds feasible Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) The ones Canley do are re-manufactured and have three mounting holes for the wishbone , top middle and bottom. I have them on my converted Vitesse, I think it is to allow for adjustment of camber, I have mine on the middle setting and the wheel sits vertical at rest. I do have a TriumphTune de-cambered spring from back in the day which makes it more negative than standard. It handles like a go cart. I think the originals were one mounting hole. Steve Edited December 28, 2023 by Steve P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 I saw that, and I think you're spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Steve P said: The ones Canley do are re-manufactured and have three mounting holes for the wishbone , top middle and bottom. I have them on my converted Vitesse, I think it is to allow for adjustment of camber, I have mine on the middle setting and the wheel sits vertical at rest. I do have a TriumphTune de-cambered spring from back in the day which makes it more negative than standard. It handles like a go cart. I think the originals were one mounting hole. Steve Three mounting holes! Wow! I did that in about 1996, when I was re-building Old Blue Vitesse. An article from long, long ago when the Courier was called "Turning Circle" described in engineering detail the nature of the Rotaflex suspension, and how it might be improved. The author ( C.K.Eikhoff - his article was "Rear Suspension Talk" Turning Circle No.14, Feb '89, pp. 9-15) found that lowering the wishbone pivot point by 60mm (2.4"!) would minimise camber change and reduce Rotaflex plunge, while a lesser drop of 44mm (1.7") would abolish plunge. As I was fitting Rotaflex to a previously swing-axled car, I made three sets of wishbone brackets, to match the OE dimensions, those of Eickhoff's 60mm drop (Eikhoff 'B') and another set, used by other racers which dropped the eye only 1" but also pushed it out by 5mm: As you will note, they were designed to be BOLTED, not welded to the chassis rail so that I might compare and contrast each set. I regret, for my scientific reputation that I tried out the "Racing" brackets and was so impressed that I never tried Eickhoffs! Has anyone used the triply drilled Canley brackets? What are the dimensions of the three holes locations? If only I'd patented my designs, I could sue Canleys!! And, has anyone heard of Eickhoff ever since? JOhn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 On the lowest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 28, 2023 Report Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) Thanks, Spitfire4! Looks like they are the same holes! Wish I'd thought of three holes in one! Would have made the comparison easier. Which do you use? Edited December 28, 2023 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted December 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2023 Gosh, this is all very interesting. I'm temporarily refitting my "bent" suspension in order that I can get the car to a suitable welder's facility. Getting the radius arm bush into place is proving awkward as the bush is out of alignment with the bracket's inner hole by about a millimetre. I have made a "slug" to lead the bolt into the hole. The slug is a cut down bolt with a tapered leading head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted December 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2023 Here's the guilty bracket. The wishbone bolt is loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 29, 2023 Report Share Posted December 29, 2023 Unless it's distortion in the camera, that bracket is deffo bent! Has the weld failed on the rear side? In the circumstances, a hammer might be used to 'adjust' it, and bring the radius arm back into alignment. For your welder's information, Canley's has the correct dimensions for the bracket location: Rotoflex Chassis Dimensions : Canley Classics John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted December 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2023 The welds are solid enough and are skewed at the same angle as the bracket. There's insufficient room to swing a hammer with anywhere near enough force to shift the bracket. I fear that the welds might crack if there were enough force applied. Think its a case of grind off the old and on with the new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted January 7 Author Report Share Posted January 7 I ordered the replacement bracket from Canley - excellent service as usual. It has arrived and I find myself confused when I look at it. You can see in the photograph that the front upper horizontal edge (furthest from camera) is not the same as the rear. If this bracket were placed directly on the chassis and welded on, it would be at the same sort of angle that the existing "bent" bracket is. I'm assuming that it should sit perpendicular to the chassis in the vertical plane so that the lower wishbone mounting bolt sits in a parallel line with the chassis. Why is there this difference in the two horizontal mount points as more clearly seen in photo 2 with my mugshot? There's an additional question in my mind... The WSM 5.106 appears to show this bracket with the two bolt holes on the top which then begs the question, should the bracket be bolted on rather than welded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 I wonder if those brackets arent for converting a GT6 to rotaflex not for one that started like that. The chassis look different with the non rotaflex having a downward curve around the axles which means those brackets are welded onto a non horizontal surface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 Oh ok for a mk2 Vitesse though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 No its alright need to check visually but I think all chassis have the curve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted January 7 Author Report Share Posted January 7 I see what you mean Jonny, I will whip the wheel off and have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted January 7 Author Report Share Posted January 7 Took both rear wheels off and photographed each side. The chassis does have a downward curve and there are definitely no holes for bolting the bracket to the chassis so welded it must be. Perhaps I will revisit the "hammer it back" suggestion... The rearmost angle on the brackets both sides are 5.58 inches as near as I can measure, which is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 Some details: https://www.canleyclassics.com/?archive=rotoflex-chassis-dimensions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 No pictures but when I did my Vitesse Mk 1 conversion I just welded it as specified in the chassis diagram, and it sits vertical perfectly in line with the wishbone position relative to the top spring mount. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) On 07/01/2024 at 10:37, Stratton Jimmer said: There's an additional question in my mind... The WSM 5.106 appears to show this bracket with the two bolt holes on the top which then begs the question, should the bracket be bolted on rather than welded? The two top holes are probably tooling holes to locate the blank when the sides are 'raised' to form the U shape. The original Triumph brackets have the holes and the part formed using press tools however for the Canley brackets the manufacturing process will be different and they could possibly be deleted. Would it be possible to make an extended cover bracket bolted to the original via the top hole(s) and the wishbone holes (with a spacer tube) and had say 25mm lower holes for the new fixing? Spacer washers the same thickness as the original bracket would be needed to maintain the correct internal width. Iain Edited January 8 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 That's certainly worth thinking about Iain. It's funny when you look again at the photos that it is clear that the nearside bracket's "vertical" sections do not form right angles with the top. The rear section is probably nearer to a hundred degrees while the front is correspondingly less. The line of weld suggests that the bracket was already bent that way before being welded into position. My thinking now is to grind out the vertical welds, bend the plates back to perpendicular maintaining the gap to fit the wishbone and then re-weld them. I will remove the driveshaft and wishbone as a complete sub-assembly before doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) Don't worry about breaking the vertical welds the bracket will bend before the welds fail. With the wishbone off you should be able to get a bar in to hit wiv n 'ammer or prize over. I would be more worried about rewelding anything to the chassis unless all surfaces are ground back to clean metal. As to the over bracket say in 3mm steel I'm not sure the eye of the wishbone would clear the original fixing hole unless the new hole is possibly more than 25mm lower. I'll take a look when it gets a bit warmer! Iain Edited January 8 by Iain T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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