Rear axle shaft inner joint

[Puglet1]

I’m trying to refit the rear axle and hub assy to my mk2 vitesse .

 The rear wishbone is connected to the chassis and I have fitted new trunnion bushes to the outer end of it which is not connected to the vertical link.

When  I am trying to refit the rear drive shaft and hub assembly, I am having trouble getting the rear vertical link bolt into the spring.

 I have lifted the spring but the shaft/hub assembly doesn’t go inwards far enough to get the bolt through the spring.

The inner U/J coupling is fitted to the splined shaft. Should the U/J assembly slide freely up and down the shaft?

Any tips or hints on refitting the whole assembly back on the car would be appreciated.

[Pete Lewis]

on a mk2 you generally need a spring lifter to raise the spring enough to align the holes for th pivot pin

if you have CV joints then one needs to telescope and  you dont have to fight the rotaflex 

Pete

[Puglet1]

Hi Pete.

 Have lifted the spring with a lifter but am struggling to align the rear vertical bolt with it.

 I still have rotoflex doughnuts fitted.

Should the inner end of the slimed driveshaft slide freely into the U/J assembly?

[Paul H]

From memory I used a screwdriver to start the process then sacrificed a longer bolt which had a ground  pointed end . Once in place used the original bolt at the other end . Hope this makes sense . 
Paul 

[Puglet1]

Hi Paul.

Yes, that does make sense, can you remember if the lower wishbone was already attached before locating the top bolt?

[Gary Flinn]

Pete

You are fighting against the Rotoflex coupling, I've seen people use ratchet straps to pull the top of the vertical link inwards so you can get the bolt through the vertical link and spring eye.

If I remember correctly, I levered the top of the vertical link inwards somehow and used an old spring eye bolt which had a point ground into it, this was hammered through when the holes were nearly aligned, another pair of hands is useful if you don't have ratchet straps.

You can then knock through carefully from the opposite side your new spring eye bolt.

The lower wishbone was in position as was the UJ onto the Differential and the trailing arm too. 

Oh the joys of Rotoflex suspension!!

Hope the above makes sense?

Gary 

 

Edited February 20 by Gary Flinn

[trigolf]

I always attach the wishbone to the v link first, before trying to lift v link up to meet the spring eye. You should have the spring lifted up until its roughly parallel with the ground. As the spring flattens out the eye describes an arc. The donut will try and twist the v link. The UJ flange does not slide on the spline of the driveshaft ( unless you have a CV conversion). You then have to wrestle the v link legs over the spring eye ( a little rubber grease on the bush helps) and when the bolt hole is lined up push the spring eye bolt in. I use a tapered drift to initially connect the v link to the spring eye. Then push/tap bolt in from opposite end and the drift falls out. It's a pig of a job as the donut has a life of it's own. 4 hands help too.🙂

[Paul H]

2 hours ago, Puglet1 said:

Hi Paul.

Yes, that does make sense, can you remember if the lower wishbone was already attached before locating the top bolt?

Yes the top bolt was the last bit . It was a pain and on one side I used a sharpened over length bolt and cut it off and added the nut . The bolt can only go in from the rear to the front of the car and access is difficult . I used 2 tools the chisel point was the most useful and had to cut it down due to access , both sections of the chisel are shown ( Screwfix I think ) 

Paul 

[Puglet1]

Gary Flinn and trigolf.

Thank you very much for your very detailed answers . You have both helped me immensely and have given me the incentive to try your methods next Tuesday 👍👍

I have also had a problem trying to fit the vertical link into the wishbone.

The wishbone and vertical link is to spec(See attached images) but when the black nylon trunnion bushes are fitted, there is an interference of approximately 3.7mm.

The thickness of each nylon bush with both washers and rubber seal fitted is roughly 4.5mm.

The trunnion kit is fully fitted into the wishbone- I confirmed this by applying pressure to them in the vice.

Have you experienced this?

Do you have any other suggestions?

Many thanks.

Pete.

Pete.

[Puglet1]

15 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Yes the top bolt was the last bit . It was a pain and on one side I used a sharpened over length bolt and cut it off and added the nut . The bolt can only go in from the rear to the front of the car and access is difficult . I used 2 tools the chisel point was the most useful and had to cut it down due to access , both sections of the chisel are shown ( Screwfix I think ) 

Paul 

Hi Paul. 
That’s brilliant.

Thank you for taking your time to help me.

Pete.

[trigolf]

Pete, re the wishbone not fitting the v link. I seem to recall I had the same prob years ago. With the trunnion bushes and dirt shields in place , it's always a tight fit to slip the v link in. Yet more grease on the dirt shield faces helps, together with some gentle persusion with a plastic faced hammer. Once again, a suitable sized tapered drift or screwdriver will help get the holes to line up.  If it still won't fit, you could try placing a small scissor jack, a Herald one is ideal, between the wishbone arms and VERY carefully 'easing' the gap v slightly. 

Gav

[Puglet1]

Hi Gav.

That’s very interesting - thank you.

 I am going to contact the supplier tomorrow to see what they say.

My vertical link and wishbone are to spec so I am surprised to see an interference fit of almost 4mm.

 I have just found a previous post with a similar issue which was due to the parts being oversized .

The post was by Roger K in January 14 2021 (sorry I don’t know how to link it with this post).

Again, thank you for your help.

Pete.

 

[trigolf]

9 hours ago, Puglet1 said:

I have just found a previous post with a similar issue which was due to the parts being oversized

Sounds like the curse of poor quality pattern parts again!😟. I've still got genuine Leyland plastic bushes, rubber seals and metal water shields and even with those it's all a tight fit, hence why I put the v link upside down in the vice and tap the wishbone onto it. If you're not too bothered about originality you can fit hard red poly bushes instead and do away with the 3 part bush arrangement.

Gav

[Stratton Jimmer]

One other thing. Never tighten up any of the bolts / nuts until you have them all in place. A little bit of give here and there helps with the overall alignment as you attempt to insert bolts through eyes. I too have used old bolts with ground down tapered ends to force bushes and eyes into alignment.

[Puglet1]

Gav and Stratton Jimmer.

 I have contacted the supplier, they are going to check their stock and measure the parts supplied with NOS parts.

Thank you for your support.

Pete.

[Works Spitfires]

Pete

I thought I would answer your enquiry on here rather than calling you back, helps everyone then doesn't it.

As explained on the phone a few minutes ago it came as a surprise that the dimensions of the plastic bushes should be called into question at this late stage as they were made a few years ago now. They are made locally for us by a great engineering company, and we have never had issues with them.

Anyway as I also explained we have NOS bushes here removed from NOS wishbones some years ago, and kept as patterns just for this sort of thing (we have extensive OE pattern stores to cover the many parts we have made locally). 

As you can see from the attached pictures the NOS bush is showing as slightly thicker than the repro, but this is down to my cheapo Chinese Verynear as I couldn't find the decent one in the workshop! However every time I measured them the variance swapped the odd thou from one to the other, and back again, so I would say they are near as damn it identical.

Your problem lies elsewhere, I have my own ideas, but I'm keen to see how this topic pans out first.

[Works Spitfires]

I should have identified myself for those of you who haven't worked it out.

 

David @ Canley Classics

[Puglet1]

Hi David.

Thank you for checking the dimensions of the bush and sharing the details with the forum members.

I am surprised to see that you have responded to our telephone conversation publicly as I haven’t mentioned where I bought the trunnion kit from in my post.

 I agree it will be helpful for others to understand this concern.

 I have taken photos of my parts and compared dimensions against the workshop manual.

The lower wishbone gap is :- Manual 89.077. Actual part measures 88.85 which is a difference of 0.227 mm.

The vertical link width is :- Manual 82.092. Actual part is 82.65 which is a difference of 0.558mm.

Based upon these dimensions I would say that parts removed from the car are within spec as maximum difference from Manual is approximately half of one mm.

 I have also taken the thickness of the trunnion bush and washer assembly which is approximately 4.69mm.

 I have not removed the bush assembly from the wishbone as I did not want to disturb the parts so am unable to check the exact thickness of the bush.

 I too have my own ideas on where the concerns lie.

What do you think the problem is?

Regards.

Pete.

Pete.

 

[Gary Flinn]

Pete

I've read in the past that two types of Vertical link castings where supplied for rotoflex cars, could one be slightly wider for some reason?

Have a read of this link

 

  

[johny]

By my calculations theres over 1mm got to come off somewhere each side of Petes vertical link😶

[Puglet1]

2 hours ago, Gary Flinn said:

Pete

I've read in the past that two types of Vertical link castings where supplied for rotoflex cars, could one be slightly wider for some reason?

Have a read of this link

 

  

Hi Gary.

Thank you for the link.

 After reading it, I can confirm that the ones fitted to my car are the same dimensions as given in the workshop manual therefore should require the standard washers / dust cover and NOT the thicker ones that Htiek required.

This makes me wonder if I have the “Thicker (TR7?) type washers/ dustcover and rubber seals.

I’m hoping David from Canley classics can help?

 

 

[Puglet1]

Hi johny.

The actual wishbone gap of 88.85 mm is less than Qtr of a mm different to manual 

The actual Vertical link width of 82. 65mm is roughly half of a mm different to manual.

The wishbone gap with the trunnions fitted is 79.50mm.

This means there is an interference of 3.15mm.

 I have attached more photos below.

 

[johny]

Yes thats about what I got and I figure the rubber ring seals will crush a little so maybe a couple of mm total would do it?

[Peter Truman]

When I did mine with no measuring only brute force, I found the outer metal washer covers titled to enter the wishbone then as I pushed it in the internal rubber seal lackey band gave enough and the trunnion slid into the wishbone with a very tight fitting 

[johny]

I think if its found that all bushes are going to be tight I would take some metal off each side of the upright...