johny Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 Could just be down to luck of the draw, like life itself🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 7 Author Report Share Posted October 7 (edited) No chance ! With all I've learnt on here I'd be willing to bet an original spec mechanical fan would work just as well... Allow me to get the Sprint fettled and on the road and report back, even if I believed in luck there isn't that much in the world ! Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 42 minutes ago, James H said: Allow me to get the Sprint fettled and on the road and report back, even if I believed in luck there isn't that much in the world ! In what way is it actually overheating? Does it blow steam out of the rad cap, or run poorly? If there are no actual symptoms it may be down to a poor sender or faulty gauge - my Mk1 GT6 always ran with the temperature gauge at halfway, until I replaced the voltage regulator, then it sat at 1/3. Remember that the heat from the radiator, blown back by the fan, has to go somewhere, which is why some models ended up with side louvres to help extraction. As Johny says: one thing at a time. Properly flushed system, good clean radiator, correct water pump and adequate fan setup. The cooling system in our cars is not as marginal as many suggest, the thermostat does play more of a part than just helping warmup, so a quality stat of the correct temperature will be a big bonus, but help the water flow and air flow as much as possible and things should run normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 more guessed overheating gremlins are down to gauge readings giving you the worry get a cheapo stick thermometer from your chemist and stick it in the filler to find out what you have actually got infra red can give you funny reading off curved pipes the gauge is just an indicator its never been space age compatible but a few silly thing will give you odd readings unless its the old moving iron which doesnt need a stabilised voltage but mix the senders up or blow the stabiliser and yee haa for worry gauging Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 7 Author Report Share Posted October 7 (edited) 18 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: In what way is it actually overheating? Thanks for the feedback it may well come in handy later but the Sprint doesn't overheat, yet ! It was bought as a non runner so I've done a sympathetic restoration but haven't got it MOT'd yet ( very jealous of the UK exemption policy ). It idles well though... Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) We know that a stock or close to stock Vitesse is capable of coping just as well in extreme climates as an equivalent modern straight six and it seems we are also suggesting that they are both doing so at the limit of their cooling capabilities, that a rock-steady temp is unachievable under extreme load... If we compare our straight six with a modern straight six its clear just how much of an advantage ours has in terms of airflow, every advantage in fact ( unless you move the rad to the boot as John tested ) Personally it seems unlikely that cooling system components alone have advanced anywhere near enough to explain the vast differences between the two in terms of airflow/layout ? Since I presume combustion temperatures haven't changed either it must all be down to our inherently inefficient bloc design, as previously stated by several of you, which we're stuck with... Regardless I think it seems Triumph basically got the cooling system right from the factory, I very much doubt many cars broke down on their first drive home, overheating issues would only develop over time due to blockages/restrictions/component failure/tuning etc... I suppose the only way to test the theory would be to fit the best cooling system money can buy to a Triumph 6 cyl and pack/fill the engine bay like a modern, sounds like a job for a u tuber 👍 Anyway I know for some it may be stating the obvious but no point can be made too clear ! Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 well no variable system can be rock steady theres always got to be some fluctuation to initiate whatever control is used. However modern vehicles now seem to have cooling pretty well sussed with electronic thermostats and electric fans plus their engines are thermally more efficient (better fuel consumption/power) so waste less heat to the environment in the first place. Theyre also designed so that the radiator has a large frontal surface area and air is ducted into it as opposed to the Vitesse (and GT6 even more so) which for space reasons have to have a deeper radiator to compensate and no ducting both of which are less efficient... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 Sure fair enough but it seems the topic of our cooling systems has become a case of the "modern day thinkers", more questions being raised than answers on offer when in fact the factory got it more than adequate from the outset... just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 Don't know if I'm dreaming but didn't someone advocate for changing the Vitesse radiator rubber mounting washers for metal to use the chassis as a heat sink. Run a 2L MK1 Vitesse with standard radiator and the biggest electric fan, sucking, I could fit. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, James H said: Since I presume combustion temperatures haven't changed either Hmm.. I thought it was commonly agreed that modern fuels burn hotter than their 60's-70's equivalents? 🤔 Gav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 2 minutes ago, 68vitesse said: Run a 2L MK1 Vitesse with standard radiator and the biggest electric fan, sucking, I could fit. How does it run Paul, steady temps ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 4 minutes ago, James H said: Sure fair enough but it seems the topic of our cooling systems has become a case of the "modern day thinkers", more questions being raised than answers on offer when in fact the factory got it more than adequate from the outset... just my two cents Dont forget a manufacturer has to design something not just to work correctly when brand new. It should have excess capacity so can still work perfectly until the planned end of life of the vehicle ie with a radiator and cooling system that is aged and dirty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 5 minutes ago, James H said: How does it run Paul, steady temps ? Runs fine, temperature gauge goes up to nearly red on restarting after a short stop but quickly drops back to normal. I'm always happy if gauges, water, oil for example, read what they normally read, only a change would warrant investigation. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 7 minutes ago, trigolf said: Hmm.. I thought it was commonly agreed that modern fuels burn hotter than their 60's-70's equivalents? 🤔 Gav Ethanol has less energy than petrol but also contains oxygen so if you dont richen the mixture to compensate it can run hotter due to being weak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) 19 minutes ago, johny said: Ethanol has less energy than petrol but also contains oxygen so if you dont richen the mixture to compensate it can run hotter due to being weak... Just out of interest then have any of you ever ignored the book or ended up running with timing retarded to 4/5° ATDC like I am ? I've tuned the carbs to suit so plugs show healthy signs and so without realising done what Johny is saying... As expected the power is less than I can get it if advanced but in no way is it lacking, she pulls really well. Otherwise doesn't show any of the symptoms normally associated with retarded timing. Maybe explains the low engine temp for the climate... Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 Johny it seems we're both running anomalies ! You advanced beyond factory, me retarded below TDC, modern fuels hey, go figure 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 Have a read on here James and see what you think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 Needs a search using the button at the top right corner. Put in ethanol ignition timing advance or something like that and the previous posts should pop up for hours of fun😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) 11 minutes ago, johny said: Needs a search using the button at the top right corner. Put in ethanol ignition timing advance or something like that and the previous posts should pop up for hours of fun😁 Gotcha, will do, hours of fun he says... Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 James if you're timing is after TDC you must be losing a lot of power. Even if you're indicator and or damper is reading 4 to 5 degrees out so at TDC your 'bang' will not be at the optimal piston position. But if it works? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) Yes so logic would dictate... however the timing marks seem to be ok and I assure you it has plenty of power. Unfortunately I haven't experienced other Vitesses but I hammer it around often uphill, sometimes 4 up, overtake without hesitation and occasionally treat it to 5500 rpm... If you're getting alot more power I'd certainly be jealous ! Reading through as Johny suggested it seems I'm the only one running an anomaly however, it seems that like him other people are successfully running ABOVE factory settings at up to 17° BTDC on 95 octane when logic would dictate lower than factory settings... Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 25 minutes ago, James H said: Reading through as Johny suggested it seems I'm the only one running an anomaly however, it seems that like him several people are successfully running ABOVE factory settings at up to 17° BTDC on 95 octane... Many discussions on the Forum about this. My MK2 is set at 15 btdc using E5 petrol 99 octane. Ethanol burns slower than pure petrol hence it needs to be ignited earlier than the wsm setting for 100 octane no ethanol. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Iain T said: Many discussions on the Forum about this. My MK2 is set at 15 btdc using E5 petrol 99 octane. Ethanol burns slower than pure petrol hence it needs to be ignited earlier than the wsm setting for 100 octane no ethanol. Iain Why was I under the impression that swapping to ethanol petrols from 100 octane apart from needing a valve conversion would cause pinging that would require retarding the timing not advancing ? Thats certainly the experience I had... Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 That's what I thought until I researched and it seems not so. However engines differ regarding carbon build up, condition of distributor etc so should be tuned individually for optimum performance. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) We don't have an equivalent to E5 99 octane over here, translated from French this is what is on offer : E5 (SP95, SP98) This type of unleaded petrol contains up to 5% biofuels. There are two types of petrol: unleaded 95 and unleaded 98. Unleaded 98 is older and less and less available at petrol stations. Although slightly more expensive, it is less energy-intensive than unleaded 95. Unleaded 98 is still used for vehicles dating from before July 1990, while unleaded 95 is compatible with all vehicles manufactured after this date. “95” and “98” correspond to the octane rating contained in the fuel. In vehicles used in a “sporty” manner, it is still recommended to use SP98 when looking for performance. E10 (SP95-E-10) E10 contains up to 10% biofuels. It is ultimately intended to replace E5 fuel on the market. E85 (Superethanol) This fuel, available since 2007 at service stations and formerly known as superethanol, can contain up to 85% biofuels. Only so-called "flex-fuel" vehicles (flexible fuel vehicles) are suitable. Its low price per liter and minimal taxation make it a popular fuel. I believe Johny and others have gone the whole hog and successfully use SP95 which I too have just switched to, time will tell 👍 Edited October 8 by James H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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