** 26/02/23 Heading Up ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!

[Bordfunker]

All this work on the engine started out as a simple gasket and oil seal refresh, and has suffered continuous scope creep ever since, of which more later.

This weekend's activities started with a test of how gas tight the head was, by pouring white spirit into the combustion chambers, having first remembered to put the spark plugs back in, and waiting.

I used white spirit simply because I had it to hand on the bench.

Half an hour later, following a cuppa and a biscuit, no change, no leakage from the valves at all, so all good, right?

My valve spring compressor turned up on Friday, and almost immediately seized!

Cue gentle persuasion with a mallet and a soak in penetrating fluid, and then a couple of minutes of working the mechanism back and forth, and normal service was resumed. No idea what that was about, but glad that I was able to fix it, as it made removing the valves a doddle.

To make sure that I kept everything in order, I made myself a little rack out of some spare ply, and started loading the valves and associated components into it.

Note that this is the 'Dirty' bench, as if you couldn't tell!!!!

Now I was expecting collets when I removed the valves, but instead, I have these metal discs with a rebate that the spring sits in, and a figure 8 hole that locates the top of the valve.

No complaints from me, as this looks a lot simpler to put together than the fiddly collets I was expecting.

I mentioned scope creep earlier, and I believe that the exhaust valves may well be the cause.

This is one of the exhaust valves pre-clean up.

And this is it post clean up.

As you can see, none too pretty, with a lot of pitting around both the valve edge, as well as the base of the valve stem, so I am now expecting I need to purchase a new set of exhaust valves, as they are all in pretty much the same state.

This is the underside of the valve head itself.

The inlet valves on the other hand, all look like this, far more healthy.

To my untutored eye the valve seats themselves look to good, but I would still expect to lap them in to be on the safe side.

Here they are.....

It would be good to get the views of the hive mind on the state of the valves and the valve seats, particularly as I am aiming to get the head and block to the machine shop this week.

Current expectation is that the head needs to to be checked for flatness, and if needs be, skimmed, and the block needs decking to remove some corrosion around a couple of waterways.

Let's see if that scope creeps a little further.

Karl

[johny]

Yes if that exhaust valve is deposit free Id say replacement is a good idea. Lapping is difficult to say as you might be there for ever trying to attain a pit free surface so machining could be a better option? Also how do the valve guides feels, any wobble from the valves?

[Pete Lewis]

there is an easy way to pop the valves out  

cut an odd bit of timber to fit in the chanber and support the valve head on a bench   

keyhole vale caps  simply push down and slide off by hand 

collet  caps  use a  socket and mallet   a good whack and the collets jump out and the cap is free 

you cant do this to refit but make stripping down very quick

 

the seats do need the small errosion grinding to a full dull grey contact ring   .  recutting by machining would be utopia but not always needed 

the days of sucker and fingers is over    oil the stems   and with a reversible battery drill grip the stem in the chuck and spin clockwise and anticlock every few seconds 

lifting the valve head off its seat each time to allow the gringing paste the reform 

this is to tidy up /reface  not recut a seat 

to  clean carbon off the valves  again stick valve in a drill  and use a sharp chisel or things like a tile cutter tool to spin off the hard deposits works a treat 

do wear gloves and goggles 

best to have the drill in a bench stand or vice 

Pete

 

[Bordfunker]

Thanks for the confirmation both.

New exhaust valves duly added to the shopping list. Luckily it appears that Mick Dolphin has NOS replacements in stock as well as the required new head gasket.

The valve guides themselves look to be good, with minimal movement of the valves when placed in the guides themselves.

I need to strip the rocker shaft down to clean the assemblies, and also check for wear on the shaft itself, however is the pin which retains the components on the shaft just supposed to drift out?

Thanks

Karl

[Pete Lewis]

if you have the end cap witha pin yes it should drift out ok ...can be a tight fit 

often replaced   with   a decent split pin 

Pete

[Bordfunker]

Not a lot of progress since last month as Covid has paid a very unwelcome visit to the Bordfunker household, with all 4 of us going down with it within 48 hours.

That was over 10 days ago, and I'm only now getting back to some semblance of normality, so like I say, progress has been lacking.

I did manage an hour and a half in the garage this afternoon, as there is only so much lounging on the sofa with the hounds that even I can tolerate, so I made a start on cleaning up the pistons.

Just Gunk and a Scotch pad removed the baked on crud, following a quick blast with the steam cleaner, and a wipe down with an oily rag.

That just leaves no.4 piston to do next week, as cleaning pistons is not the most exciting activity.

Having tried to drift out the pin holding the end cap on the rocker shaft, so that I could properly strip it, and check its condition, I gave up and drilled out the retaining pin. 

I only had to drill about 4mm into it, following which it drifted straight out with a single tap.

I am so glad that I did remove the end cap, as even rudimentary scrutiny, highlighted a number of deep gouges on the shaft itself.

That's a gouge in the centre there, it must be at least 0.5mm deep, and it wasn't alone.....

.....that's 3 gouges close together.

So that means the rocker shaft is scrap, as I'm not putting it back in in that condition, another part to add to the list.

As for the rockers themselves, the photos below indicate the general condition

Those areas of wear are about 0.5mm deep, which suggests that they have probably worn through the area of surface hardening, and therefore I am assuming that these are also junk, and in need of replacement.

Fortunately Mick Dolphin appears to have NOS ones in stock.

Aside from those discoveries, I also managed to remove the block from the engine stand, as, now I am feeling better, I am hoping to get it to the machine shop this week in order for it and the head to be checked and skimmed.

Which would be nice, as I can then look at putting the engine back together again, and then returning to the chassis welding, which is what I should have been doing.

Karl

[Colin Lindsay]

Yikes!! That shaft has been eaten. 

On Saturday I mentioned to the PO of my Herald that there seemed to be a bit of rocker noise; he told me he always leaves them looser than recommended (I think he said it was to to allow for expansion). I'm dreading what I'll find once I start on them.

[Bordfunker]

6 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Yikes!! That shaft has been eaten. 

It’s not great is it!

You do have to wonder about some owners don’t you?

You’d think they’d appreciate, just possibly, that the manufacturer might have factored expansion into their settings!

Karl

[Pete Lewis]

if the bores are Ok iwould just reface the rockers keeping a bit of the orig profile they would probably been flame or induction hardend so there

is a good depth to play safe with 

needs a fine gring wheel dont want any ridges in the rub face 

that wear only makes feeler fit a problem it wont affect the operation as its just normal polished wear and tear  quite normal 

i made a simple wooden jig to hold the rocker and control youre arc of swing when grinding the face  on  a small drill sharperner  but its long gone so cant photo it 

Pete

[Bordfunker]

Thanks Pete, I might see if the machine shop can sort those out while they are checking the head, and decking the block.

Karl

[Bordfunker]

Finally, in this case refers to the fact that I have finally got around to dropping the engine block, head and rockers off at Headline in Milton Keynes.

Headline were recommended by one of the local TSSC guys, an hour away from me, tucked away on a tiny little industrial estate, and everything I expected them to be, a tiny old fashioned machine shop.

On dropping my engine off, I couldn't help but take a look at the row of blocks awaiting attention in front of the counter, and was heartened to see a Triumph straight six amongst the collection.

I managed to pick the wrong day weather wise though, as it absolutely chucked it down, and the wind was blowing a gale, which made for an entertaining trip, staring at the map on my phone, while piloting the C1 weighed down by the Herald's engine in the boot!

Before dropping the engine off, it got a final clean, to try and remove the last of the muck, which included spraying Gunk through all the oils ways, followed by a run through with some extra-long pipe cleaners, and finally the steam cleaner.

Like a smoking dragon, the central oil way gets a blast!

Finally leaving me with a clean block for machining.

With the main engine elements out of the way, I took a look at the NOS oil pump that I picked up from Mick Dolphin.

It is apparently an FAI manufactured component.

Compared with the old pump, the only difference is the rough cast nature of the pickup tube.

Anyone ever heard of FAI before? 

While looking at my growing collection of new parts, I decided to fit the main rear oil seal to the carrier.

Which was then put back on the clean bench with all the other components awaiting return of the block and head from Headline, which maybe some time next week, assuming I can get to Milton Keynes to pick it up.

So, aside from some DIY this weekend, all I managed to do was finally turn my attention to the water pump, which has been sitting, dirty, and unloved on a shelf since it was removed.

No photos I'm afraid, but the pump itself is good, with no unwanted movement, and just in need of a cleanup, and a coat of paint, ahead of reassembly.

Were all Herald fans painted yellow like mine?

Funnily enough, it looks to be exactly the same yellow as the '47' painted on the side of the block. 

Karl

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

next time your in MKcan you   detour to sunny luton for a Cuppa 

Pete

[Josef]

Herald fans were originally yellow. If they all were though I’m not sure. The Spitfire mk2 definitely got an aluminium version for export markets that I think was unpainted. 

[Peter Truman]

Yes our Mk2 CKD here in Aus had a 4 blade Aluminum fan.

Engines we’re sent to Aus fully assembled ready to install by AMI

[Bordfunker]

Thanks Pete L, I might take you upon that.

Aluminium fans, obviously a lighter, a performance enhancer for the more sporty Spitfire!

Thanks guys

Karl

[Colin Lindsay]

On 07/11/2022 at 14:51, Josef said:

Herald fans were originally yellow. If they all were though I’m not sure. The Spitfire mk2 definitely got an aluminium version for export markets that I think was unpainted. 

Early ones were black; once they moved to the later pressed four-blade version in 1967 they went yellow for both 1200 and 13/60.

I like the alloy ones, they polish up well...

[Bordfunker]

That does look very nice in polished alloy!

Bit of bling!

Karl

[Bordfunker]

Work has been manic the last few weeks, with long days, and little chance to go and pick up the engine from the machine shop, but hopefully next week I should be able to get out of the home office for a couple of hours to pick it up.

Last weekend was a bust, as my boss was in town from South Africa, so Saturday was spent showing her around London, and Sunday, catching up on all the chores that I would normally do on a Saturday.

So as I mentioned a few weeks back, focus has instead been on cleaning up some of the ancillaries that have so far been neglected, continuing with the water pump and the oil seal on the timing cover.

For some reason, I had decided not remove the oil seal from the timing cover before painting it, which means it was sitting there still requiring replacement, surrounded by freshly painted metal. Anyone's guess what was going through my head when I made that call!

As you can see, the seal itself was pretty chewed up, and every time I tried to remove it with a seal pick, a bit more broke off, without the seal itself moving a millimetre.

Nothing for it, but to break out a tungsten carbide die grinder, and grind the devil out.

Success!

And a very mangled old seal.

A quick clean of the interior of the timing cover, which was now covered in plastic shavings, and metal swarf.

After that, the new seal went in without a fight.

Which meant it was time to turn attention back to the water pump.

As per my usual methodology, everything has been cleaned and stripped down to bare parts, to ensure a deep clean.

It was then given a coat of Fe-123 in order to kill any lurking rust.

While that lot was drying off, I started work on the water pump's mate, the fan, which was looking somewhat tired and battered after 50+ years of neglect.

Time to break out the strip wheels and wire brushes, and start getting that paint off.

Getting there....

Much better, but look at the mess it made on the bench!

And time for some paint.

Confession time; I went to put a second coat of primer on, and managed to spray the fan with Gunk! 

The dangers of having two orange cans on the bench, one etch primer, the other Gunk! 

Lesson learned, and Gunk put back in the cupboard out of the way.

The water pump also got a coat of primer as well, but first I had to reassemble it, which meant taking a tap and die to the threads on the studs and threads which hold the pump itself to the main body.

Unsurprisingly, there was surface corrosion on the studs themselves, but a quick run through a die had them back to near pristine condition.

I used a Loctite sealant on the impeller to body joint as well as the gasket, just to be on the safe side, before masking up all the mating surfaces, as I didn't want paint on them.

Note the thin bead of sealant peeking out from the impeller flange.

And finally primed.

So what next?

Time to tackle the rocker cover, which was in every bit as poor a state as the fan.

Cue more work with the strip wheel and wire brushes.

A vast improvement, but again, not without a degree of fallout.

This time, lesson learned, and old newspaper laid out to catch the worst of the crud.

And yes, I was wearing a mask throughout these activities.

The rocker cover will need a coat of Fe-123, before getting primed.

I am expecting to have the block and head back next week, and can then mask it up, and give it a coat of paint, prior to putting the new core plugs in, and starting the reassembly process.

Speaking of which I received the new exhaust valves from Mick Dolphin, still in their original packaging.

Who would have thought, that one day, seeing that logo on a box of parts would actually inspire confidence?

Also, speaking of reassembly, as I was, what are everyone's thoughts on assembly lube, bearing in mind that engine won't probably be run for at least 6-12 months, though I will obviously have the ability to turn the engine over.

Karl

[Bordfunker]

The block and head are now back from the machine shop, and currently sitting in the hall (Mrs B is very understanding), while I make some space in the garage to get it repainted, and then start the reassembly process.

So in order to make some space I decided to finish off the fan with a lovely coat of yellow paint, applied in my makeshift paint booth.

I had the heater running to make sure the area was warm enough for painting, hence the thermometer.

The end result was lovely shiny fan, ready to back on the pump once it's also painted. 

I know the shade of yellow isn't quite right, but it will do, after all, it's just a cooling fan.

Next on the list was the rocker cover, and oil breather cap, both of which I expected to have painted this weekend, but after applying rust stopper to them both on Monday, by Saturday, they had flash rusted! B*gger!

Nothing for it but to rub it all down, and then reapply the rust stopper, leave that dry overnight, then on with the primer on Sunday.

Hopefully that should keep them protected until the weekend, when I can get some top coat on.

Looking through my diminishing pile of engine bits which have yet to be cleaned/refreshed I picked up the block drain tap, and spent a very satisfying 20 minutes buffing the tap up.

Now it may look blingy, but it doesn't work as the lever won't turn, but at least it's jammed in the closed position. 

It was working after a fashion, but every time you turned it, the retaining plate on the bottom would fall of its shoulder. 

Hammering the plate onto the shoulder, then locked up the mechanism, so it won't turn. 

I'm not going to sweat it, as I don't use the drain tap, so as long as it doesn't leak I'm not too phased. 

Also the thermostat housing got the same treatment as it was looking a bit the worse for wear.

Somewhat less blingy, but vitally important, were the reprofiled rockers themselves.

They look flat in the pics, but the machine shop have retained the original profile.

I removed the push rod pads, I don't know the correct term, and made sure that the oil ways were clear, before putting them back together again.

The aim next week is to get the rocker cover and oil breather painted up, and then the block can move into the garage and get a coat of gloss back enamel, following which the serious business of reassembly can commence.

Karl

 

 

[Chris A]

27 minutes ago, Bordfunker said:

I know the shade of yellow isn't quite right, but it will do, after all, it's just a cooling fan.

That attitude will just not do! You'll never win a concours like that 😁

[Bordfunker]

Chris, I don’t think there is ever any danger of this vehicle being remotely concours!

The thought of keeping a car immaculate, and having to worry about every little detail holds no attraction for me.

Karl

[Chris A]

18 minutes ago, Bordfunker said:

 

The thought of keeping a car immaculate, and having to worry about every little detail holds no attraction for me.

Karl

I agree absolutely! Quite often I look at mine and think it needs a polish but decide a drive out is what it is all about.

[Peter Truman]

On 29/11/2022 at 08:35, Chris A said:

I know the shade of yellow isn't quite right, but it will do, after all, it's just a cooling fan.

Well its bright enough to see and warn you not to touch when rotating & that's what it is about SAFETY!

[Bordfunker]

On 03/12/2022 at 00:47, Peter Truman said:

Well its bright enough to see and warn you not to touch when rotating & that's what it is about SAFETY!

You under estimate my stupidity!

Why is it, that when the weather is mild and pleasant, you never have time to attend to those jobs which require, mild and pleasant weather?

Such as painting the engine and attendant elements. Cue yours truly desperately trying to heat a garage from a less than friendly 4 degrees, to something near 15, which meant trying to create a little bubble of warmth in which to paint.

I hate to think what my leccy bill is going to be after this. Beans on toast for Xmas dinner may be in order.

Before I mixed up a batch of black enamel, I decided to attempt painting the previously primered rocker cover in my makeshift booth, just to check that the paint wasn't going to bloom.

Not looking too bad given that it is a rattle can job, and certainly a huge improvement over how it was when I took it off the car.

Comfortable that I could safely paint without fear of blooming, I set about the block, but prior to that it had been treated with rust stopper, and then masked up prior to spraying.

As always the masking took a lot longer than the actual painting.

The paint finish isn't perfect, with the odd run here and there, but given that it's an engine, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

I even had help with the painting!

Though, I think Olive was more interested in the warmth of the garage than anything that I was doing!

Also in the queue for the paint shop were the engine front and back plates, I wasn't happy with the previous finishes, and the rocker cover breather filter.

I have ended up with some fish eyes on the breather, no doubt from silicone contamination, so it will need sanding back and cleaning up, before I try again.

I'm still not overly happy with the finish on the front and back plates as the drying time of enamel is painfully slow, so it ends up with lots of dust in it, so I may well try sanding it back, and giving it a couple of coats of cellulose instead, as this dries much quicker, and doesn't attract as much dust.

Just in case you are worried, the freshly machined surfaces of the head and block were treated with a layer of wax by the machine shop, which will keep rust at bay until it comes to final assembly.

But what about the head I hear you cry? Maybe not.

I did toy with masking the head up and spraying it, but given how little of the head is actually painted, I have decided to hand paint it, but so far have only managed to get a coat of rust stopper on.

I think I might bring the head indoors for painting as the garage is a little above zero at the moment, and I do like having feeling in my hands!

While the weather remains cold, I will make a start on reassembling the bottom end this weekend, but first I will give the engine block a final clean and put the core plugs in.

Karl

[Peter Truman]

good job, like the Beagle have you been wiping the black paint brush on his back to clean it?

We've had 3 Beagles two were quite tall, the first hailed from a farm nr Bishop Auckland (farmer Giles) he came home to Aus with us, cost more than our combined Air Fares. Keeping faith to the Hound Theme our last dog was a Fox Hound standing up he nearly looked me in the eyes and I'm over 6ft, he was nearly 16 when he died, really surprised us being such a big dog.

Hope the weather and temp doesn't get worse!