Spitfire 1500 Engine Rebuild

[Anglefire]

Just looked at amazon, and they do this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/VonHaus-Electric-Impact-Wrench-Driver/dp/B06XKLYQZW/ref=sr_1_2?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1512933665&sr=8-2&keywords=impact+guns&refinements=p_76%3A419158031 I know its mains and not rechargable - but the battery ones are silly money!

And the socket is I think one of these (Metric equivalent of the 1 13/32" ) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00D2XKQIS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 Even has triumph on it will be ok.

[Pete Lewis]

Cam followers , may not fit through the push rod apperture so unlikely to fall out

With the engine out lock the flywheel and a decent ratchet or long breaker bar will undo the big bolt , the torque is not anything outstanding but they do seem to either fall off or self tighten

Dont now that the lobe discrepancies warrant a change , , you need to examine the lobe surface, they can get plucked away from 

By the rotating worn followers

If you are fitting a new cam you must have new followers, as the  wear contour on the old follower will destroy the new cam lobe

Use bedding in lube and run it in at the prescribed speed amd time , or you will be doing it all again soon.

[Anglefire]

Thanks Pete, I’ve been reading up on the procedure and seems that you have to vary the revs up and down, to about 2500rpm. 

So without removing the head how do you change the followers? 

[Anglefire]

I can answer my own question. You can’t. 

[Anglefire]

This is an interesting article too.  http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/spitfire_cam_specs.htm

[Pete Lewis]

 Yes its head off or sump off  ,  out the top or out the bottom

Thats a good deal of info from down under , all collated together ,helps make a  choice

Pete

[Anglefire]

Well, after a bit of rattling in the pockets of my trousers, I've decided to replace the cam. And go duplex timing chain.

Partly I'd looked at the head gasket and its the silver type - which everywhere you read suggests they don't last. So got a Payne (Spelling?) one coming.

Went for the Newman PH1 new cam - and followers. It will suit my driving and the  engine better I think as the power is lower down - 1500-6000 - the fast road is 2000-6500 which is a bit too high for me.

Decided to go duplex as I might as well whilst the thing is in bits.

Must tell the wife.......

[Pete Lewis]

Tell her  'what'   exactly,  I see a ransom coming on 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Agree with Pete, but I know a man who can help you out, and do you a nice patio.

[Anglefire]

Need a new patio as it happens.........

[Anglefire]

Well.  My new radiator and duplex timing chain came today from Canley Classics. Rad I decided to replace the other day after giving it some thought that the existing one doesn’t look fantastic. 

Came in a massive box full of other boxes for packing. Puts amazon to shame.  

Not sure when the cam will come as they have to grind it - but hopefully before Christmas as I’m hoping to do the swap whilst I’m off. Weather permitting. 

Also ordered the gaskets which should come this week and some cam lube. Mind you searching for that came up with some interesting results 

[Anglefire]

Just reading up on the Newman’s site about fitting the cam - and when first starting it says you don’t have to rev the engine and just drive it normally as you would for a new engine for the first 100miles or so.  http://www.newman-cams.com/camshaft-fitting/

[Anglefire]

Cam arrived today...   

[Pete Lewis]

Thats all that would have happend on the triumph engine build ,  any idea something special happend would be a  real myth

In fact some engines were probably never run on a test bed but used back to back IE  as a drag one runs and turns the other as a load.

Ignition set with  bulb  and carbs preset to 1.5 turns in ,  there would not be any faffing around with strobes or balancers

Pete

 

[Anglefire]

I went to Wolfsburg when I was about 18 or 19 and went around the factory - watching them set the timing was interesting! Fire up the engine with the dizzy very loose, waggle it around until the machine that was plugged in said it was correct - then wheel spin it off the line!

[Anglefire]

Ok, had a bit of time this afternoon to do some more work on the engine.

Removed head, timing cover and fuel pump, dizzyy and ultimately the cam. (Not necessarily in that order )

4 of the head studs came out, rather than the head bolt coming undone. Not really happy with the condition of the ones stud's thread. Doesn't seem as clean as the others, so think I'll get at least one new one.

One fuel pump stud is definitely going to need to be replaced, the thread is well and truly mullered - just got to see if I can find the part number before I get it out.

Got the new cam in - plenty of cam lube over it before and as it went in. There was a bit of damage on one of the lobes - I'm sure it would have been fine. Possibly.

I can work out the correct TDC with my dial gauge, similarly the correct position for the cam before fitting the chain.

But I'm trying to now work out how to turn the crank 110' - well I know how to turn the crank, obviously, but I don't know the best method of attaching the timing disk onto the crank - is something like bluetack good enough? Or is something else the best method? 

Once I've done that, I can put it all together again, once I've got the correct head gasket - the one in the kit (Payen) was a 1300 and not 1500 gasket - but Paddocks are sending the correct one as they packed it incorrectly. Errors happen, but its how its dealt with that matters - and they have been good  

Head itself looks to be fine as do the valves. It has got double valve springs on - is that normal for a 1500?

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

blue tac  , sticky pads or under the pulley bolt all will work

Head studs on refit the block end should have a slot in to allow any oil out or you can blow the block face with hydraulic pressure

Pete

[Anglefire]

The ones that are fitted do indeed have a slot in the threads - I did wonder why it was there, but assumed it was all correct! But thanks for the clarification - all stuff that will be logged in the memory bank for future reference - assuming I can dig it out again!

[Anglefire]

Correct head gasket arrived today as well as some new flywheel bolts and head nuts - I've already picked up some new head studs.

So tonight, I've timed the cam - used  some sticky backed velcro to fixed the timing wheel onto the crank - worked well enough - it was 1degree out from where I thought it was! Camshaft itself was slightly more difficult only because it was only not moving the dial gauge for about 3degrees - if that but 99% sure it was correct.

The pulley marking to the cam chain cover was pretty much bang on too - might have been 1/2degree out.

Trying to work out how to tighten the studs into the head - the obvious way is to lock two nuts on the end - and avoid undoing the stud when undoing them again!

Which comes to my stumbling block

My big torque wrench doesn't go low enough and my small one doesn't go high enough. So going to have to buy another one - Halfords Pro range is very good and guaranteed for life!

[Pete Lewis]

with new studs its worth a look at the nuts and washers the washers deform and the base of the nuts can spread, this all looses torque during use

the nuts are high rated as the  46lbft torque is much hgher than std 3/8" unf nut will hold,  amd soft washers brinnel out under the load of the nut 

so anything std. will give in quckly  .  

upside down wheel nuts  can make good head nuts where theres room .

the HD nuts are usually a black oiled quenched apperance 

 

Pete

 

[Anglefire]

I bought new HD head nuts from Moss - They were actually cheaper than the standard bolts and washers (No washers are required as they have a "built" in washer effectively.)

And yes they are black and look quenched. 

Has been interesting reading about the studs - some say to install them finger tight, some finger tight and undo 1/4 turn. The Torque Specs says the studs should be 46Ib/ft and the nuts 45.

Whatever, I have to buy a new wrench 

[Pete Lewis]

There is no torque for the studs in the triumph issued workshop manual  just  the  nuts at 42-46lbft

I would spin them in at 20lbft max  to ensure they are nipped up tight  certainly never  loose

Excess loading in the block can pull the casting and scrap the block  doing studs to the same load as the nuts is 

In my experience very  likely to end in tears. 

Just nip the studs  

As for a torque wrench a 1/2"  ratchet will with a good pull gets  around 60

So a nice even pull on all nuts in sequence will give a good result  without getting a hernia

These figures /tooling are  to enable  unskilled assemblers to achieve a consistent result

With a sensible feel you can quite easily acheive a result 

 

 

Pete

 

 

[Anglefire]

TBH Pete, I need a new one anyway - my small one was bought when I had a beetle - which was when I was 17/18 - so is well over 30 years old and when I used it at a higher torque than i usually use yesterday, it didn't feel right somehow.

[Pete Lewis]

Ive got  norbar  <100lft  had for my 21st thats 51 years old as every day tooling , still calibrates ok,

 then theres a torque and angle lcd 120 lft and a torque to yield 200lbft  these are rarely used 

Pete

[Anglefire]

I shall get one from Halfords - which are made by Norbar and come with a calibration certificate - I've not had my little one re-calibrated - not sure where I'd go to get it done TBH.