Spitfire 1500 Engine Rebuild

[Pete Lewis]

Now there a coincidence  the thrusts in my 2000 were wrong way round which has mullered the thrust face

There a plan in place to control the excess float ,  without changing the crank  but I want the present ones to wear in first

And after a season of driving the float has not increased  so shes ready for plan B

If it works I will let you know  if it doesnt...........!!!!!

Pete

 

[Anglefire]

Luckily mine hasn't been run with them in the wrong way - just turned by hand.

Just trying to decide which supplier has the best ones! The states seem to have a supplier that custom makes solid bronze ones. But I don't think they are available over here - or of they are what the cost of shipping is!

[Guest]

I tend to use FW Thornton, not the cheapest but they do have excellent stock and varied suppliers. Always found them very helpful.

http://www.fwthornton.co.uk/

[JumpingFrog]

I'm not sure those bearings are tri-metal, they look shiny to me, wheras tri-metal are matt. The part numbers are a little confusing, more info here: http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/6055-confusing-bearing-part-numbers/ I'd replace them for the sake of £60~. All suppliers will sell County thrust washers - unless they have old stock, I don't think there's any issue using these. I used James Paddock for my engine parts last time, pistons, bearings and thrust washers.

The thrust washers you've removed look quite worn to me, you can see the surface breaking up. However, you won't go far wrong with a pair of STD and a pair of +5. Remember that both +5s will reduce end float by 10 thou. You can also machine or lap down (against a flat surface) the back if required.

Side note: I prefer to measure end float with a dial gauge, using a screwdriver on the centre main cap to move the crank, as per the workshop manual. This will probably give you a slightly higher figure.

[Anglefire]

Got some thrust washers today. Went for std, +5thou and +10thou. 

Fitted the standard to the one side and initially +10 on the other - but couldn’t get even a 2 thou feeler in. So took it out and fitted a 5thou instead and I could then get a 5thou in (reasonably obviously) I did try a 6 but wouldn’t go. 

Before I fit the sump properly I am going to try and borrow a dial gauge and see what that reads. That or buy one but not sure if the cheap amazon ones are very accurate and I’m not sure if I can justify an expensive one. ? 

[Anglefire]

Got a dial gauge and stand today and measured the endfloat of the crank using the method above. 

And it ties up with my feeler gauge at 5thou. Which I’m happy with. 

Zeroing the gauge was the hard bit - but happened to be almost zero the one way ?

[Anglefire]

Sump is back on and I'm now thinking of swapping it with the one in my car currently.

First though I want to make sure I get everything I need (want!) 

I've got new engine mounts and bolts. 

I am going to get a new clutch - best place to get one from? Club shop does a Borg and Beck 3 part for £97 - Rimmers OEM Spec is £118 and an alternative spec is £89. Other places do them for around £80 or so - I'd rather spend a bit more and get a good one - so am thinking Club shop?

Did take out the thermostat and will check it but for a few quid probably replace that too.

What about things like oil pressure switch and water temp sender?

And finally, possibly the big one  -though it can be fitted later is an oil cooler? It's a pretty much standard engine (will just have a sport exhaust on) - but reading lots the posts the oil seems marginal and to keep the temperature down is a good idea?

 

[dougbgt6]

I wouldn't put an oil cooler on a 1500, I wouldn't put one on a GT6 which is far more on the edge of overheating. Oil has to be hot and you don't want to keep it too cool!

[rogerguzzi]

2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

I wouldn't put an oil cooler on a 1500, I wouldn't put one on a GT6 which is far more on the edge of overheating. Oil has to be hot and you don't want to keep it too cool!

Hello

      I have an oil cooler on my 1500 spitfire but it does have a thermostat so only opens when oil hot and all the books say the 1500 benefits from an oil cooler!

I suppose it all depends how hard you are going to work it and what countries you are going to visit(Spain gets a bit warm! 40degs when we were there this year!)

Roger

[Anglefire]

Thanks Roger, if I fit one, then I would fit one with a thermostat as that does makes sense on a road car.

i might leave it for now and see how it goes - though I think a oil pressure and or temperature gauge might be useful. But what sort. Some seem to be ruddy expensive. ?

[rogerguzzi]

6 minutes ago, Anglefire said:

Thanks Roger, if I fit one, then I would fit one with a thermostat as that does makes sense on a road car.

i might leave it for now and see how it goes - though I think a oil pressure and or temperature gauge might be useful. But what sort. Some seem to be ruddy expensive. ?

Hello Mark

                     I just looked for a smiths type oil pressure gauge  that matched the others and fitted it were the light switch is (I moved that else where)

Roger

PS I think I have one in the shed but not sure if it has a thermostat as mine is built in and they seem to be separate now?

[Clive]

Doug, the 1500 engine streses oil more than any other. It is also the engine that is hardest on BE bearings, same reason. So an oil cooler is useful especially if it will be going on motorway trips and so on. Pottering about not needed. 

That is why a really good oil is also a sensible idea.Something better than when the cars were made and regrinds pften needed at 40k! Again only if motorway work or the car will be driven enthusiastically. 

[dougbgt6]

Thanks for that Clive, good to be put straight!  My thoughts were coloured by the GT6's overheating issues. Oil coolers and electric fans are frequently fitted without addressing what's actually wrong. The radiator is only just big enough and once it starts to loose efficiency, you're in trouble, as I discovered last year.  I have been tempted to add an electric fan for emergency motorway traffic jam use. On the other hand maybe I'll just avoid the motorway? 

Agree 100% regarding oil, I have a very nice 5 litres of Chateau Miller's, ready for next season.

Doug

[Anglefire]

I’m going to review the oil cooler once it’s all back in and running I think. 

I don’t tend to go on motorways in it as it’s not pleasurable- particularly round here on the M42/M6/M5. 

But I intend to drive it reasonably spiritedly. 

[Clive]

Trouble is motorways are essential to get anywhere in a sensible timescale. Just got in from doing a navigational rally with CT (Lucy, my eldest, managed to win her class!) but it involved motorway and the notorious A12 to get from Brighton to Clacton, and back again. So that is about 250 mile round trip (and another 85 on the rally itself) Motorway journey got that sub 2 hours each way, except the mandatory 1hr stationary on the A12 on the way. Going any route avoiding the motorways would have added hours to the journey.It really is a case of "needs must"

[Anglefire]

True Clive, but I don't (Currently!) do any nav events, just planning on some weekends away next year without the kids (Well 17 & 19 so no longer kids!)  and they will be shortish runs.

Once i get the new engine in, I'll see how it runs - its been fine this year running a few times to Warwick castle down the local roads (mostly because we have Merlin passes so get in and parked for free, and I indulge my other (well one of them!) passions, which is photography 

[Clive]

Sorry, I was digressing. What I meant was that the round trip to where I needed to be would have taken twice as long if I had avoided the motorways. So if you plan to do any travelling,motorways are almost inevitable (unless you are very patient!)

The actual event was pretty gentle driving. We averaged about 30mph....and never over 60. Obviously lots of stops to work out where we were and where we had to go......

And as it happens we saw a rather large bird (of prey) feasting on a bit of roadkill. Only caught a brief look as it scarpered pretty quick as we approached.

[Anglefire]

I know what you mean Clive. 

My intention is for the drive to be part of the reason for going - so keep off the motorways where ever possible. 

Having said that, I’d like to do a foreign tour one day and that would have to be at least motorway this side of the water!

but that is not going to happen anytime soon I suspect. 

[Anglefire]

Got a new water pump and fitted that this evening - the old one was probably "ok" but was slightly rough when compared to the new one.

Also fitted a new temperature sender - slightly longer than the one I took out - but does now actually sit in the water flow rather that sort of sitting in the shadow of the casting - which from my controls background is a more responsive position.

Fitted a new thermostat and adjusted the tappets - all were just a little tight - in so far as I couldn't get a 10thou feeler in - but all ok now. Actually, what I may do is get my dial gauge on the case and see if that makes a difference. Shouldn't do if the rockets are nice and flat (And to be fair they do feel ok)

Got a new oil switch to go in - but I also have a oil pressure gauge to go in when it arrives - and the engine is in - I've already got a tee piece to allow both the gauge and switch to be fitted.

Got a new clutch to go on when the engine is out - but got to swap the flywheels over - my flywheel is from a Dolly 1500 so slightly different size and the starter is therefore different.

Also got a new dizzy (well refurbished) to go in when its fitted - but no point fitting it yet as I want to prime the oil before I start it. Just got to find a suitable blade - or something to drive the pump with.

[Clive]

Ithink I used a scredriver or similar. Actually chopped and put in my drill (spinning backwards? does that sound right??)

Thinking about it, a flat wood drill bit may work with a tweek with a grinder. Very cheap from toolstation/screwfix etc....or raid the toolbox for a blunt one!

[Anglefire]

Yes. The common thing seems to be to chop a screwdriver. But I don’t have one I want to chop - or at least not one big enough to be of use  

We have both of those local to us so will have a look and see what is cheap.

spinning backwards is right  I’d love to do it whilst it’s on the stand - but that is a bit daft as it would all drain out before it went in the car and I would have a sump full of oil to also worry about. 

 

[Clive]

I would use assembly lube.

Then once you are ready to fire the engine up then prime the oil system. Then dizzy in, plugs out and spin on the starter. Then plugs in and off you go, down the pub for a celebratory beer!

 

If you have a length of metal rod, or similar (studding? long bolt??) you may be able to use that with a flat end ground on it.

[Anglefire]

I was a bit bored this afternoon, so popped into the garage and using my dial gauge measured the cam lift of the 8 valves. 

Now, I’m sure I have some variance from the location of the pin and it’s angle to the pushrod, but I got these measurements. :

Going from cylinder 1: (in thou)

inlet 245  exhaust 224

Inlet 234 exhaust 241

inlet 241 exhaust 241

inlet 236 exhaust 226

Question is, are they bad enough to need a new cam, given they should all be 240thou.  

If so, how do I undo the crank bolt given the engine is on a stand with the sump on. Obviously I can take the sump off again, but would rather not. Assuming of course that I don’t need to take the head off and and pull the lifters out of the head?

 

[Pete Lewis]

Decent impact gun will whip the nut off

Dont need sump off with timing cover removed and the rocker gear taken off you can remove the cam but must hold the followers up to get it out,  if you manage this dont let the followers drop in the sump or you will have to go fishing   having the  engine upside down could work 

[Anglefire]

So they are bad enough then Pete? 

I was going to whip the rockers off, put the rocker cover back on and turn it upside down - I assume the followers will then just fall out.

Impact driver. Ah, another essential tool to buy then  - Any recommendations!

Will go for a Newmans road cam I think - the PH1 cam looks to be very similar to the Mk3 cam, but still drivable.

I know Canley do a reground cam for the 1500 but as per the mk3 profile, but I'd rather go for a new blank I think.