Ben Caswell Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 The mark down the bore looks like where the oil control ring had parked for a period of time leaving either a rust or acid mark???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 Good indicator of cam condition is the state of the followers - which can be pulled out from the top (usually with a bit of difficulty). Light circular markings are normal. Dishing is a sign of advanced wear and pitting likewise though also indicating lubrication or quality issues. They need to go back exactly where they came from if re-used. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 hours ago, mpbarrett said: I think I will stick with a standard cam either a standard Spitfire of the PH1 from Newmans. I bought the PH1 from Newmans for my 1500 and its very nice - lots of low down torque. Use new followers - either theirs or standard ones with proof - so the warranty is maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 Anyone have any experience of Cambridge Rebores ltd in Burwell or Meridan Engine services Barton, again in Cambridge? cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 I used Cambridge Rebores for the head refurb on my Toledo, on the recommendation of a former colleague who had used them for MG engines. They seem to be good and trustworthy, slightly more helpful in some ways than Ivor Searle in Soham (although I ended up using the latter for the Vitesse's new block rebore). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted May 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 finally got the engine apart. The crank has been reground (+0.020) but the conrods bearings look almost new (still silvery grey colour) and no scoring. Havent got the main bearings out yet. The pistons all look like they have been blowing past the rings. I had expected No4 to be worse as it had low compression and a scratch on the bore) but it seems similar to the rest. I am assuming the scratch down the bore maybe caused the loss of compression. I have borrowed an internal mic so will try to measure the bores. The cam is worn but I had planned to replace that and the followers and the chain and gears (both worn). The engine has been apart before as it has lots of Red Hematite on any gasket face and quite a lot in the oil pump filter... My plan is to get the engine rebored, fit new pistons, new cam and followers and drive chain. Is it worth going for a duplex chain or stick with a single one? Do I keep the existing bearings shells as they are not worn or replace them. Comments and suggestions welcome! Cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 That last photo looks like the oil control ring wasn't fitted quite right - possibly jammed and not as effective as it should be. That might tie up with burning a bit of oil. I don't think a 1500 needs a duplex chain. It's not a naturally revvy engine so you'll not need heavy valve springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 I fitted a duplex to my 1500 - hadn’t planned to really but decided to in the end as the simplex fitted was well worn and thought it a worth while upgrade. Perhaps overkill but won’t need doing again for a while I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 4 cylinder doesn't need a duplex chain. Decent quality single row will be fine. Decent quality means (among other things) having a ground finish on the outside edges so it doesn't chew through the tensioner. Not replacing the bearings is false economy IMO - especially on a 1500. Possible exception is if they are proper VP2 bearings, which will be stamped on the back. If they are stamped AE or Glacier then they are aluminium/tin bearings which don't have a copper layer to show through. VP2 big ends are NLA (may still be possible to get mains in some sizes) but tri-metal bearings are available from Revington TR and County (King). Agree that there is something strange about the oil control ring shown. Also the top ring looks very slack in the groove? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 Hi. Iv'e pondered isolated scratches in bores and thought it must only make a very small % of lost compression?. What is the the reality?. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted May 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 Thanks. I will replace the bearings, I want to enjoy the car for a few years without stripping it down again so happy to replace anything that's needs replacing! I wonder if someone has rebuilt it but just put the engine back with new rings. Certainly the crank has been reground.. BTW where is the best place to get new bearings? Will go for a single new chain and gears. Dave don't know the answer to your question, I have a deep scratch but don't think that was the reason for the loss of compression but I could be wrong! I was hoping to find something really wrong with the engine but I think its just down to a combination of lots of little things that has made it smoky and low compression on No4. I will try to measure the bore tomorrow and see it is over size or oval. cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted May 7, 2018 Report Share Posted May 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Nick Jones said: 4 cylinder doesn't need a duplex chain Why? Serious question. Is it just they don’t need them because the rpm isn’t high enough or something else. I’m happy to have changed mine, so is largely academic for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 You only need a duplex chain if the stress is too much for a simplex, in the long term. The amount of stress on the timing chain depends entirely on what it's driving, which is just the distributor and eight cam lobes. If you're revving very high, and thus need strong valve springs, the contribution of each cam lobe is increased. The factory fitted the duplex chain only on the 2.5 engines. In the case of the 2500S/TC this was a total waste of time. The reason for it was the engine's origin on the TR5 - relatively high revving, twelve cam lobes, and the PI regulator to boot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 ^^^^ exactly that. The factory considered single row chains adequate even for the 2L, 6 cylinder. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted May 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Dropped the engine off to Cambridge Rebores today, seem like nice guys and lots of interesting engine bits around and are familiar with Triumph engines, they know all about Cam bearings or lack of them and can line bore the block to fit bearings if needed. They comment on the pistons were that they were complexly buggered! the oil control ring has worn away and seized in the groove, the upper rings have worn and have lips on them and the grooves in the pistons enlarged! Good news is that the crank is good (the mains have been ground to +0.03 and the piston bearings to 0.02), no scratches and or marks so just needs a light polish and new bearings. They suggested that some of the damage could be due to the engine running very rich, could be the old carbs I had on it or when I started playing with the EFI, but I don't think I had done enough mileage to cause the damage to the pistons. As it managed over 37MPG around Scotland I don't think it was too rich then, and the AFR readings was ok but I will be careful when its all back together. So its getting a rebore, new pistons, rings and crank bearings. The cam followers were knackered (was going to replace them and the cam anyway) and had worn thru the hard facing. So new cam, followers, chain and gears. The "New/replacement Bits" list is growing rather rapidly.... should be like a new engine by the time its finished... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Just a quick update. Got the engine back from Cambridge rebore and the gearbox from its rebuild. Both now fitted back in the car, strange how there are always a few bolts and nuts left over... Have done a few other jobs on the car while everything was out of the car and with visits from the daughter and grand children it has taken longer than I wanted.... Had a bit of a scare when I noticed a front engine plate gasket on the bench, even checked the engine that I had fitted one and then remembered that it was a spare one...! Filled the engine and gearbox with oil, fresh water and antifreeze and turned the engine on the started motor and after about a while the oillight went off and the pressure went up. No sign of any leaks yet.... As it was getting late decided to clear up the garage and will start her up today. As I have had all the fuel pipes off need to check everywhere for leaks, as it injected and running at 3 bar really don't want a leak. If its runs I will refit bonnet and take her out for a run. I want to take her to the TR international next Sunday. cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, mpbarrett said: turned the engine on the started motor and after about a while the oillight went off Did you spin the oil pump via the dizzy hole with a drill first? Not that the factory would have done it when new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Anglefire said: Did you spin the oil pump via the dizzy hole with a drill first? Not that the factory would have done it when new. No maybe I should have done.... just started the engine, warmed up, good oil pressure but the engine has a really nasty knocking noise. will see if I can put up a video of it. Feel like going down the pub.... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Help. Any suggestions whats causing the noise from my newly rebuilt engine. It has had a re bore, new bearing shells (crank was ok), and a new camshaft and followers. Checked the valve clearance and they are all ok. Oil pressure is about 70psi at 1000 rpm. Noise has got worse as the engine has warmed up.... Noise seems to be coming from the top end of the engine but have tried listening with a wooden rod but cant really localise it. cheers mike WP_20180624_12_05_06_Pro.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Hmm... Sounds too loud for tappets, too high tone for piston slap. My Vitesse made a noise very much like that, including the "getting worse when hot", back when it first blew the head gasket (between cylinders 1&2) but you'd definitely notice the rough running if you had that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, NonMember said: Hmm... Sounds too loud for tappets, too high tone for piston slap. My Vitesse made a noise very much like that, including the "getting worse when hot", back when it first blew the head gasket (between cylinders 1&2) but you'd definitely notice the rough running if you had that problem. Just done a compression test. This is with the engine cool all 4 cylinders are showing 105 PSI, this seems a bit low but maybe due to the new rings not bedded in? I have only run it for about 15 mins. I would have thought a head gasket problem would show up on the compression test? Might go and lock the garage and watch the football and get really depressed! cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Can't download the clip. But obvious stuff....you have used the correct head gasket? 1500 are all recessed I believe, so a tag sticks out at the back of the engine? I had an engine, bought part assembled. However, when it started it had a knock. Took me ages to suss it. It was the cam sprocket not tight. Cam was timed correctly, but the PO had not fitted the locking tab or torqued it up. Something I should have checked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, clive said: Can't download the clip. But obvious stuff....you have used the correct head gasket? 1500 are all recessed I believe, so a tag sticks out at the back of the engine? I had an engine, bought part assembled. However, when it started it had a knock. Took me ages to suss it. It was the cam sprocket not tight. Cam was timed correctly, but the PO had not fitted the locking tab or torqued it up. Something I should have checked... Clive The file is a big big...... yes to the head gasket, a Payen (sp?) one. Cam sprocket was tight and has the locking tabs on it. Now watching the football which is going well, must be a first for England! cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 I’ve just listened to the video. On video mine sounds very rattley. But not so bad in the flesh. It sounds very light as a tap to me. Not heavy bottom end. Only one piston I would said. Or one tappet. Could try the feeler test and see if it quietens it down. Have you tried moving the camera down the length of the engine - it might be noisier at one end or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Anglefire said: I’ve just listened to the video. On video mine sounds very rattley. But not so bad in the flesh. It sounds very light as a tap to me. Not heavy bottom end. Only one piston I would said. Or one tappet. Could try the feeler test and see if it quietens it down. Have you tried moving the camera down the length of the engine - it might be noisier at one end or other. had another play with it. Used a steel rod and the noise seems to be coming from the head rather than the block (cant hear it if I put the rod on the block but can if I put the rod on the head) and seems to be at the front end (No1 cylinder). I have checked the tappets but will take the rocker cover off tomorrow and have another look...... cheers mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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