NevSpit Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Hi all, Slightly concerned here as off to Laon on Friday and just come across a problem with the Spitfire (MKIV 1300 D type overdrive). Have been out in the car and engaged the OD, however, when I went to disengage it nothing seemed to happen. Once stopped i switched the OD in and out and can hear both the relay and solenoid clicking in and out accordingly. Driving home the car was doing approx 45 mph at 2000 rpm, which from memory is probably the ratio with OD engaged. Sadly i cannot drive straight into my garage but have to reverse slightly. with the engine and handbrake off it did not roll back as expected but with a little pull it seemed to 'unstick' and i was able to reverse about 18 inches. It therefore seems as if it is / was staying in OD. Any thoughts on how that could happen and best course of action. With an early start planned for Friday (and work before then) time is sadly of the essence. Whilst going forward with a constantly engaged OD does not overly concern me the fact of reversing with it does. Any help, advice or guidance gratefully appreciated! Many thanks, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Firstly if its suck in do not reverse the car it can wreck the one way clutch rollers /assy. i would check the solenoid has no rust on its core , if its stiff it can hold the lever open remove the side cover see if the rod from the solenoid is nice and free getting the solenoid off is the silly job as the bottom screw are often hidden a long driver from the back might get on it even jack the OD up a bit Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Doesnt the OD get held in by hydraulic pressure that is directed to its operating mechanism by the solenoid valve? The required oil pressure is only produced when the car is driving along so if its engaged with the car stationary I would have thought theres a major problem with the OD internals..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 As Pete says, reversing with OD engaged can do bad things. However, if the reason it's staying in is a stiff solenoid or lever, then reversing VERY SLOWLY will be OK as there's no hydraulic pressure to engage it. If that were the case, however, I'd expect you to be able to notice the OD cutting in at relatively low speeds - depending on its condition and the temperature / age / quality of the oil, the required pressure builds up somewhere between 10mph to 30mph. The fact that it needed "a little pull" to free it to roll backwards, though, suggests it's not the solenoid / lever / valve but rather that the conical clutch itself is sticking. I've not come across that but it's certainly possible - they're wet clutches, so normally well lubricated, but if it's been slipping and the oil's contaminated then it could form a sticky goo that would hold it in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevSpit Posted June 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Thanks all. I have managed to get some time in the garage and take the tunnel off to have a look. This is what i have found but unsure what is correct and what is not... The solenoid seems to have good, easy travel and appears to pull the lever to the back of the car nicely. As it is engaging ok then i presume that direction of travel is ok. When the solenoid releases it moves towards the front of the car and hits the stop at the front, so travel is good. However, i did note that the brass lever arm does not 'spring' as far forward as the solenoid arm would allow. There is no 'nut' or device behind the arm to push it so unsure what would force that forward and thus presumably take it out of OD. All of this was done with the engine off so again not sure if it has to be running to release itself. I took the operating valve nut of and there appeared to be some oil in the reservoir there (again not sure if there should be or not) i took the ball, rod and spring out, wiped an replaced. the oil seemed to drain away at this point. It is currently raining here so have not taken it for a test run as yet but will do so as soon as it stops to see if the problem repeats itself. As always thoughts and suggestions welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevSpit Posted June 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Some photos to help explain. The first is with the OD switched on - engaged. The second is the OD switched off (note the position of the lever arm) The last is the OD switched off but i have pushed the lever arm as far forward as it will then go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevSpit Posted June 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 So.... drove it slowly around our estate and in and out of third OD ok. Went along a main road and seemed ok in and out of 4th OD - for a while, and then jammed in again. Back home i manually pushed the lever forward and took out the operating valve. Neither of which seemed to free it. Once more it was 'stuck' and would not roll back down the slight incline. With engine off I gave it a pull backwards (having tried to drive a little way forward first to no avail) and you could hear something 'donk' and then it was free. Certainly sounds as if something is 'sticking'. OD was replaced about 5 years ago so is certainly not old. Looks like the only safe way to take this at the weekend will be to disable the OD unless anyone has any bright ideas 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 If the clutch is sticking on its cone maybe an italian tune up will clear it up ??? Do some changes under power to make it work out without trying to kill it Have a read of the troubleshooting in here http://www.odspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/odspares?opendocument&part=3 It also suggests a bit of hard use, You can call dave twigger always helpfull at od spares Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Certainly dont think an oil change would be a bad idea..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 The lever returns under residual hydraulic pressure, so I'm not surprised it doesn't do so when stationary. However, if it hadn't returned by the time you'd got home then there's something preventing that. As you say it moves freely, I'd suspect something in the hydraulics or, as previously mentioned, stuck clutch (the clutch is connected to the pistons that produce the residual pressure as it returns). Oil change and an Italian tune up might do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell1972 Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I also have this issue with my MK3 GT6 as outlined in the thread below, also a D-Type. I bought the car with that as a known problem, but the only solution I've found is to clout the overdrive case with a hide hammer while moving. It seems to stick once the box gets warm. At the moment, I've given up with it and am resigned to the fact the gearbox will have to come out. I'm preparing the car for it's first MoT for a while, so have electrically disconnected the overdrive to stop me trying it with all the tunnel back in. Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevSpit Posted June 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions, as always very useful and much appreciated. I think the next course of action will be an oil change and then 'vigorous' use to see if that helps. If not i will disconnect the switch until funds and time permit further work. For now though I have ran out of time so spent the remainder of last night prepping another car to take, fingers crossed that all works ok.... Russell, I replaced my OD about 5 years ago and it was possible to do it from inside the car with tunnel and seats out. Not too bad a job if i remember correctly although a spare pair of hands underneath to guide and wiggle appropriately is useful - well it was easier than man handling the gearbox out to change the clutch! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Your listing doesn't say where you live, but the guru of gurus on gearboxes, O/ds etc is Mike Papworth, in Coventry, if that is convenient. mike.papworth1@btopenworld.com John (no connection, just satisfied customer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 yes done a few just popped the OD off , yes can be a fiddle old trick as on or off the car aligning the internal splines is hopeless but easy way to get the OD on is two screwdrivers pry the piston plates to open ,all is then free to self align and on she goes , keep screwdrivers ready to withdraw quick and keep fingers well out the way or you get a big Ouch. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Check the oil level. Mine was low due to an undiscovered leak and the OD stuck on on an M'way journey. Reversed in the services and it popped out. Filling G'box to correct level cured the problem. This was a J-type OD. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 yes I suppose its possible not enough lube is getting to the friction surface so it could stick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Yes it can get stuck, if pressure cant go back. but also if the big snap ring ont end of sliding member comes adrift { bit like 3 rd gear clip coming loose int box } then it,ll stop in OD an wont come back oot at all. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Sorry to give another overdrive question, Being allergic to gear oil i have not had anything to do with gearbox's or diff's and at a show yesterday i was asked a question. Does leaving the overdrive switch on the "in" position all the time cause any damage? Believe or not i have never owned a car with overdrive either, so could not answer........ Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 It shouldn't, if the rest of the system works. As soon as you take the gearlever out of the 3/4 plane (or out of 3rd/4th gear on the big saloon box) the inhibitor switch disengages the overdrive. When you then change up from 2nd to 3rd while accelerating, the overdrive gets engaged immediately. Depending on condition, temperature and other such things, this either means you skip 3rd completely or you get 3rd gear for a few seconds then 3rd OD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 hours ago, poppyman said: Sorry to give another overdrive question, Being allergic to gear oil i have not had anything to do with gearbox's or diff's and at a show yesterday i was asked a question. Does leaving the overdrive switch on the "in" position all the time cause any damage? Believe or not i have never owned a car with overdrive either, so could not answer........ Tony. It does run the risk of unnecessarily straining the overdrive unit as its really designed as a means of dropping the revs when cruising and not for the load of hard acceleration which is why it not used on lower gears. If you see the epicyclic gears inside you can appreciate this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Strange question, did they mean IN when driving or IN when parked or whatever Left in when driving if wired correctly only works in 3rd and 4th which makes a big step in ratio going from 2nd to 3rd Od which Has a similar ratio to 4th direct, as johnny say this adds a lot of unnecessary torque and lost performance Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Hi Pete, it turns out the guy forgets to turn it off, meaning it is left engaged most of the time even when reversing or parked up, untill he remembers to disengage it. I have suggested he gets an auto like me But he politely declined, saying he did not want an "old man's" car . Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Dont think you can help guys like that it can only work when its rotating if its permanently live makes no sense no point in talking about relays inhibitor switches, d type or j type with luck its a d type and reversing will solve his wallet and obscure brain waves Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Thanks anyway chaps, i will just let him get on with it. I suppose it will come to a stop sooner or later...... Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Think thats wise , when its an obscure request you dont know where its coming from its not easy to be objective Its not a put down thats unfair but sometimes you feel you need a shrink to decipher the lack of clues Well its raining and now I wont get a free tv license Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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