The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - now the fiddly bits

[Josef]

Very glad you’ve finally found a solution. Though another story of poor professional quality work is saddening

[Chris A]

19 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

need some kind of padded cover for it; the Herald has one but I need to find the maker so that I can track down an NOS version online.

Not NOS but might appeal to your refined tastes.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/363915142741?hash=item54bb086655:g:J~4AAOSwdrhbz-S9

[Badwolf]

Oh yuk!!!

[Chris A]

17 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Oh yuk!!!

I know it wouldn't be to your taste as you prefer the simpler things in life . . .But Colin is that be more adventurous

[Pete Lewis]

one of the first things they taught us in the apprentice school 

if at first it doesnt work get a bigger hammer 

i didnt use one for the sectioning of the TS3  1965  

this is now in coventry motor museum 

Im not 

Pete

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

this is now in coventry motor museum 

Im not 

Pete

Don't take it to heart, we all think you're a museum piece.

[Pete Lewis]

dont think they would put me on a stand with  a big motoer turning me over 

but on my last visit with the newzealand commer fans  they had stuffed the drive motor 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

if at first it doesnt work get a bigger hammer 

My favourite quote goes along the lines of: you can fix it with a hammer, unless it's an electrical problem, and even then, maybe...

Thanks for the link to the steering wheel cover, for those of you watching in black and white: you're lucky.

It wouldn't fit my car, anyway... the steering wheel is on the wrong side. I could always just cable tie the cat around the steering wheel... 

 

 

[Peter Truman]

We had the Sprint original leather replaced/recovered by a local tradesman great job still the rim is relatively thin compared to an aftermarket lace on but I like it. The new leather finish was the last he had that matched the original finish.

The Vitesse’s original leather was looking a little worse for wear used to give it a shot with the wife’s Mr Sheen but the other day gave it a good dose of Maguire leather conditioner gee it’s come up a treat no more rough patch’s.

[Colin Lindsay]

Short(ish) update this time as everything is working well now that the bonnet is useable again.

The steering wheel cover arrived. It was too small, so lay on the bench for a week. After that, I was bored, so picked it up and found it to be slightly elastic... in fact, quite stretchable. It comes as a continuous loop, not a strip of material as I had thought. You need two people or four hands but it can be pulled over the wheel, so that's your starting point:

                                  

After that it's a case of twisting the cord around the edge in whichever pattern you prefer - I've gone for an 'angled' look of the older version that I have, slightly wider between wraps, but theoretically given enough cord you can criss-cross or go for a straighter pattern. You need to keep the material compressed around the rim and overlap it front to back, so again two people are better.

                      

                                   

Once completed, just tie it off where it won't be too visible. I'm very pleased with the way this has turned out and the feel of the wheel itself has been transformed.

                                                                                      

Wheel now refitted and all working well, although I also replaced the three-pronged bracket for the horn push - mine has lost the lower tab so rotated when tightened and therefore broke the horn push pencil too, which also had to be replaced.

I'm happy to announce that the Estate is behaving itself, the engine has not leaked anything recently so the new head gasket appears to have cured the coolant leak.

                         

Consequently I've dug out a NOS distributor that according to the label on the box was bought in 2010 - probably for the 1200 convertible - and have fitted SimonBBC electronic ignition, which I've always found very reliable. All I have to do is remember where the wires go. I remember setting the instructions down, only 12 years ago...

With the distributor fitted we're very close to startup, but I want to refit the dashboard and instrument electrics first, and that's being held up by soundproofing and a few small parts on order.

Tomorrow the 13/60 convertible gets another outing to a local show and autojumble, a round trip of 25 miles, so we'll see how the speedo and gearbox performs on a longer trip. I would polish it but I don't want it to get used to that sort of treatment.

 

[johny]

Oh dear Colin that looks like the same steering wheel cover Ive fitted (plastic and very cheap?) and I cant say its a pleasurable experience driving with it as my hands get pretty sweaty. I think Im going to have to splash out on a proper leather one that is stitched on and hopefully will be breathable....

[Badwolf]

What happened to the fluffy pink steering wheel cover. Really disappointed now 😞

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, johny said:

Oh dear Colin that looks like the same steering wheel cover Ive fitted (plastic and very cheap?) and I cant say its a pleasurable experience driving with it as my hands get pretty sweaty. I think Im going to have to splash out on a proper leather one that is stitched on and hopefully will be breathable....

Time will tell, in the meantime it's an improvement on the thin original!

I'm getting used to cheap thingies not doing what they're meant to - this evening I've cleaned up the white 13/60 for the show tomorrow, removed the overmats in the front footwell, and in the front passenger footwell:

Yep that's a hole. Under the overmat in the front passenger footwell. The carpet was fitted less than six months ago and we've covered less than 140 miles in total with a passenger in the car for much less than that. I know she has a habit of braking for me but there was a mat on top of that one. Surely a carpet should last longer??? Must make contact with Coverdale asap.

[Colin Lindsay]

I've just fired an e-mail off to the company who supplied the carpets - they were fitted at the end of April, and the Herald had the first road outing in June. Two months and only twice with a passenger so a total distance of maybe 60 miles max with feet on that area? Both underfelt and soundproofing under it so no sharp edges. Not good.

 

 

[Badwolf]

Colin - And I thought that my carpet was in poor condition, but it was installed in 1986 (I think). Maybe get a few more miles out of it before I complain. What do you mean John Hills are no longer trading?

[Colin Lindsay]

John Hills... I remember them! Along with Andrew Stone, Six Spares and Chiswick Car Craft.. all big ads in The Courier.

[Richeee]

Is my cataloque out of date then ?.

[Badwolf]

Afraid so, and your John Kippings one too.

[Badwolf]

8 minutes ago, Mathew said:

They should have some good reference photos and drawings.

That's why I keep them. The prices make me want to weep!! Wish that I had stocked up then.

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, I haven't updated this thread in a while - nearly a month, going by the date. I've been leaving the garage alone, lots of other things ongoing, and the Herald 13/60 has been behaving itself so not much to report. I drove about 160 miles yesterday, the car went faultlessly - no creaks, rattles or other noises, started first time, stopped when required and the overdrive now works as it should thanks to a replacement solenoid.

  

It seems the old one was stuck on, so overdrive was coming on in the lower gears but seemingly only at certain revs, so any reversing I've done at low speed wasn't enough to cause any damage. I've no idea why but I can't be bothered stripping the old solenoid down just yet. That can wait for winter. In the meantime it's enough that it works, and very well, although there was one episode yesterday where it took maybe ten seconds to activate and had me worrying. It soon returned to normal though, and instant activation when switched on. I reckon I can leave it alone now. I checked the speedo reading against some of those fixed speed indicators - the ones on lampposts that give you a smiley face if you're under the limit - and with my speedo reading about 38 they were telling me I was doing 36 in the 40mph limits. Close enough, and under so I'm happy there's no danger of exceeding the limit when the camera van is about.

Other problems on yesterday's run were terrible dipped beams, one light only on full beam, (bullet connectors to be sorted) and a windscreen that went completely white everytime we met an oncoming car in the dark. That wasn't pleasant and left me driving blind for a few seconds, hoping I could remember where the hedge was and desperately hoping there were no pedestrians or other obstacles. I don't know if that's due to the screen delaminating - there are no visible signs in daylight - and would a new screen be any improvement? In any case I need better bulbs.

We also lost a lot of coolant - two inches down this morning, radiator tubes bone dry although the gauge never moved, and we've got brake fluid on the bulkhead which has removed paint. The level in the master cylinder appears to have risen and overflowed, or maybe that's just my imagination, but in any case that's something to check as a matter of urgency. The handbrake has become quite weak, needs a good pull, so again more exploration required. The cooling system is dripping but I cannot identify where from - pump or housing? It's in that area, behind the fan - but if it loses that much it'll require repairs. I think it's 'back-on-the-ramp' time.

                                                                                    

Theres also a huge oil leak from the sump; this was about 1/4 pint after a week or two parked up. I dipped it this morning and the level is still quite high on the dipstick, so I suspect I've overfilled it and the excess is draining out. I'll keep an eye on it but there's still loads left, and with the car on the ramp I can at least work out where it's coming from.

                                                                                     

Thanks to Coverdale Carpets who replaced the worn section of carpet immediately and with no questions; if it was my fault they were very generous and the new piece matches perfectly.

Work has also progressed at a snail's pace on the 1200 Estate as I didn't have much time recently, but I did manage to refit the rear seat.

  

It's a very interesting arrangement whereby the seat slides forward when the back is dropped down so while there are two fixed mounts in the wheelarches the other mounts go through the floorpans into captive nuts. Easily enough to reach in the end. The front 'apron' covers the gap underneath the seat, so that when the seat is upright, it's a flat panel, but when the seat lowers it flexes. As you can see the wheelarch covers aren't fixed yet, I need to see where they should be cut behind the seat and side trims before gluing. It was never one of my strong points and they'll probably not look much better when finished anyway, but at present they're progressing an inch at a time as glue dries.

There's also an oil leak from the gearbox. This occurred on my previous drain plug, a non-tapered version with copper washer, so I went for an original tapered version, and it still leaks. 

                                                                                         

Worn threads then. Tightening to gorilla-standard has made no difference.  I'll have to investigate appropriate sealants, as it leaks when cold so will no doubt get worse once the car hits the road. I'm surprised the copper washer version leaked as the washer should have compressed sufficiently to stop the oil, so possibly a better washer might work. I'm becoming tired of draining the box each time, though, and also of having to remove centre tunnels on either car to refill the box. It'll end, eventually..

[Bordfunker]

Looks like you have plenty to keep you busy this winter Colin!

I hope you find the source of your leaks swiftly.

Karl

[Colin Lindsay]

160 miles in the 13/60 on Saturday, top down all day even though we got home after 9pm in total darkness. Overdrive worked perfectly, just as well as some of the sections were at 60mph plus. We had a slight rattly noise from the engine halfway through the day, sounded like something had worked loose - never found it - and the water leak had dropped the coolant by half an inch after the first 40 miles so was kept topped up. It's unnerving driving in a totally silent Herald - no creaks no rattles and no squeaks bar that tinny rattle from the engine but I'll not knock it. One thing I found was that the headlights are useless, totally pointless on dipped beam especially with oncoming traffic, and the main beam wasn't much better. Got home, disconnected the battery - just in case - and went to bed.

Next morning - coolant well down, maybe an inch below the top of the pipes; that needed addressed urgently. I also found that only one main beam was working - that's a loose bullet connector under the bonnet. I had a quick look up under the bonnet and reckoned the water pump has had it. It's one of the early pumps that can be rebuilt, and the water was clearly coming from the area of the seal.

  

Thankfully I have a spare, rebuilt by E P Services a year or two ago, so just swap the pulley over. I did notice that the supplied washer was a bit on the small size, though.

                                                                  

I just reused the old one with a new nyloc and that was that. All refitted and refilled tonight so I'm watching for more leaks overnight before starting the engine and heating up to temperature.

The lights were easily sourced, although if I'd been more decisive I'd have had them completely sorted and back on the road already. I went online for recommendations as to replacement bulbs, and was able to source Philips GT200 Racing Vision bulbs for the H4 outers. Sadly I dithered over the H1 inners so the H4s arrived today and have been fitted, but no H1s yet, so can't drive the car with two holes in the bonnet. It looks bad! 

                                                       

The difference is very visible already. The photo below shows the passenger side uprated, and the driver's side standard. Whiter and brighter! I don't need Racing Vision just Anti-Hedge but that should be a huge improvement.                                    

I'll nip down to a local autofactors tomorrow for the H1s, they usually have good uprated bulbs in stock. We'll be back on the road by tomorrow evening.

One other intended mod came as the result of a photo elsewhere on this forum, where a member had a three-dial gauge fitted to his Herald instead of the original two gauge temp and fuel setup. There are quite a few of these around, they were used on different models of the time, and the third gauge has a choice of volts, amps or oil. Of course I wanted oil, so it took a day or two of searching, but £19 later I received this one today. The one on the left is one I cannibalised a while back, NOT the one from my current car...

                              

It's a 99.9% match for the original gauge in looks, has the extra oil pressure section, and is almost mint. It's also a white needle version; many come in red, so that's one less thing to change although the Herald gauges would swap over if necessary. It's also reading half-full already so must have come with half a tank of fuel. I can now use that in the original mounting position for the old gauge, but there is a very visible lack of warning lights - no big deal as I'm using an early Vitesse dashboard, so the indicator warning jewel goes between the gauges. All I need is to fit a main beam warning light somewhere suitable and it'll look great.

I also bought a very cheap rev counter for the car, just to test the engine revs temporarily as it's totally unsuitable for the car - it doesn't match anything! - but it arrived today and something is definitely not right... unless the box is revving at 6000 rpm, very quietly. I'll have to see if it's totally defunct, or saveable. The intention was to use the internals with a period face and pointer, but only time will tell if it can be used at all. It was bought from a UK seller, posted from Italy, and I doubt very much if they'll replace or refund for the sake of a tenner.

                                                                                              

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Still on the subject of gauges. I've been out this afternoon spending a happy hour trying to swap gauges between housings, and having great success, but there are a few slight problems which someone may know the answer to.

This is the gauge I'm intending to use, with the additional oil pressure section:

                               

Now: the eagle-eyed amongst you may have already spotted two things: firstly, the temperature is reading hot, and secondly the fuel gauge is reading half full. I've checked and no it didn't come with a half tank. Although I've no idea of what vehicle this gauge came from originally, I've tested the gauges and the needle moves slowly along indicating a stabilised gauge, although sadly in the case of the temperature gauge it moves from hot to cold regardless of what polarity I use, then back to hot again. The fuel gauge moves to the extreme left if the gauge is tilted, and again no matter what polarity I use to check it, it jumps when power is applied, but only a tiny fraction - not even to the first marking past the letter 'E'. It should go all the way to full. As it's free to move otherwise I reckon the internals are defunct, unless someone wants to correct me re any schoolboy errors.

Easiest option is therefore to swap the actual gauges in the common housing. I've started with the temperature gauge from a 13/60, and this is a straight fit.

  

I'm now happy that the temperature will work and be accurate, given that it's a working gauge from the same type of car into which it will be going later. Same thing then for the fuel gauge.

No. The two gauges may look similar, but the replacement won't fit.

                                                                                        .

The original fuel gauge is slightly deeper - on the right above - and while the Herald version does eventually fit, there's a gap, and the lettering is also half obscured. You can see how the lettering differs in the photo, it's actually in a different place, so it doesn't sit central in the gauge face. I tried a slightly different version (did you know there were different ones in 13/60s?) as shown below, but still no go.

   

This version has a raised rectangular section, not the triangular version of the other gauge, and again while it fits it's not a perfect fit. The temperature gauge on this version also differs from the one I used - no red section. I think it's from a 13/60 estate originally - the fuel gauge has no red reserve either, but I'm surprised the temperature gauge doesn't have the warning section. 

In view of the fact that I cannot work out why the fuel gauge won't move I have three options - dismantle the original and see what's wrong with the internals (but the fact that the needle moves without power, but not when powered, may point to repairs beyond my ability); I can try to transplant another gauge from a cluster that I have, or else I can try to source another gauge that matches the defective original. There's actually not much inside these which is why I reckon repairs are out of the question.

                                                                                           

I have another cluster but this one is NOS and I'm reluctant to cannibalise it unless absolutely necessary.

                            

The reason I'm not using that one is because the temperature gauge reads from right to left - hot is on left - and this would both confuse and worry me everytime I looked at it. It also has a black bezel - ok, easily swapped over - but there's also no centre button, so it's not a perfect match for the speedometer either. It appears the only option I have is to source a replacement fuel gauge which matches the original here.

The marking on the gauge face is X.86080/1 if anyone has a reference and can check what vehicle that's from?

                           

I'll search later and see what I can find but it'll be interesting to find a source. Dismantling will be a last resort, I always like to have a spare to fall back on which of course defeats the purpose - if I have a spare I don't need to repair this one. Other than for interest's sake, of course. Curiosity always gets the better of me.

[Josef]

You may get lucky Colin with the one that moves by gravity. It could be that the springs inside the gauge have come detached. It’s fiddly, but possible to hook them back together and get it working again. So worth a look inside. 

[Colin Lindsay]

I tried, Josef.... drilled out the front face of the offending gauge - they're only lightly peened into the backing case - and had a look, but nothing sprung immediately to mind and the wires are thinner than human hairs. Even with the face off, the needle moved a tiny fraction under power, but flopped about through gravity. I gave up, bit the bullet and cannibalised my NOS black-bevel cluster. The worry here was that if I dismantled it, even if I rebuilt it again it disturbed the originality if I ever sold it again, and if the gauge didn't fit, it was a waste of effort.

In the event: it fits, Dandini - it fits!

  

Looks perfect and original (bar the lack of reserve marking) and when tested moves slowly to 'full'. I'm happy. I find it looks quite neat in the dash, and should be simple to connect in place over the winter once I've reveneered the spare Vitesse dash. I'll just have to keep an eye on the actual fuel levels to check the accuracy - no point in running dry whilst the gauge reads 1/4 full.

That leaves me with the dilemma of what to put in the two spare 2" holes in the dash; rev counter is one, but....? Volts maybe. Decisions, decisions.