New Forum member with dodgy Rootes

[SixasStandard]

Hello All,

Have just joined the Forum as a prequel to purchasing my first Triumph. I currently own (and I hope this isn't going to offend anybody's sensibilities) a rather decrepit 1963 Sunbeam Alpine GT in need of a full restoration. My good friend Richard owns an extremely nice Vitesse Mk2 convertible, and his civilizing influence has led me to the conclusion that I need a Vitesse Mk2 in my own life, albeit a saloon in my case. The Alpine will become a long term project (or as Richard will probably suggest...….a rather rusty millstone around my neck!!). Anyway...….very glad to be part of the Forum, which has already impressed me with the quantity and quality of contributions being made.

I am actively looking for a Vitesse Mk2 Saloon at present, so would be interested to hear from anyone on the Forum who knows of a good car for sale. I'm after a restored car which has already had any corrosion issues dealt with, but which provides the opportunity for further improvement as a rolling restoration (I already own one basket case......and that's enough!!). I would prefer a car without a sun roof, and with a black interior...…...exterior paint colour is less of an issue, although I have to admit to a weakness for Triumph Damson Red (no-one's perfect right?). I would consider a Vitesse 2L Mk1, but my preference is for the cars with the revised rear suspension arrangement. Perhaps members of the Forum could offer their advice on the comparative merits of the two litre cars?...…..or is that a can of worms best left closed!!

Regards,

Ian 

(SixasStandard)

    

[Paul H]

Welcome to the TSSC forum , I would suggest placing a wanted add with the Club , that’s how I sourced my Mk2 Vitesse Saloon and specify Overdrive as this is in my opinion essential . 

Paul 

[Clive]

Hi Ian, and welcome.

Richards Vitesse is a nice car, and getting better all the time. 

But don't be afraid of a MK1 if it turns up. The engines are broadly similar, and both perform well. Tweeks are available to make a MK1 handle as well (?) as a MK2 without the complexity of Rotoflex or a CV conversion. I would buy on budget/condition over the MK1/2 issue. Overdrive is pretty essential on a used car....

Looks like you have another reply, I am old and slow these days!

[SixasStandard]

Hello Paul/Clive,

Thanks for the replies.

Paul...….that is a beautiful car, it just confirms my preference for the Saloon version. I'm out of the UK at the moment, but on my return will join the club formally and submit a 'car wanted' ad as you suggest. I'm keen to source a TSSC member owned car if possible.

Clive.....you're right about Richard's car...….it sets a pretty high bench mark eh?  Thanks for your advice on the Mk1/Mk2 conundrum...…..and both your and Paul's comment regarding O/D is a useful tip...…..much appreciated.

Regards,

Ian

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

theres an A1   Vitesse saloon  on our classified 

Pete

[SixasStandard]

Hello Pete,

Thanks for highlighting the Devon car. Yes, I'd spotted it, and it looks in excellent condition, but the asking price is a little high for my budget. I would prefer a Mk2 car if possible, so I suppose I'll have to see if anything pops up in the next few months before widening my search. 

Regards,

Ian

 

[Pete Lewis]

theres a  reason late GT6 reverted to a swing axle and dumped the rotaflex 

its fine when its working but can be a pig to work on compared to the simplicity of the MK1 rear end 

and unless youre doing something completely stupid the idea of tuck under is more myth than fact

if you dont like the stance of \-o-/  which can be cheaply solve with a lowering block

pete

[Paul H]

I converted my mk2 to upright shockers ( TSSC shop) plus replace the rotoflex , bearings, UJs , polypropylene bushes , brakes . The job was extremely difficult for me and I even rang Canleys for advice as I couldn’t reassemble the half shafts . Dave said reassembly was the most difficult job for the Vitesse and when they carried out the job it took 2 guys . I did it on my own but it was a pig to do BUT I would do it again 🤫

Paul 

 

[SixasStandard]

Hello Pete/Paul,

It's obvious that I have a LOT to learn about these cars, and that nothing is as straightforward as it seems. I have done a bit of superficial research, and read about the handling problems that the motoring press at the time aimed at the earlier cars, largely addressed by the Mk2 mods. That being said the problems are probably only likely to manifest themselves at the extremes of driving ……...and as my 'Carlos Fandango' days are way behind me now the likelihood is that it wouldn't be an issue for me. Probably of more significance is the improved cylinder head design...…...isn't the earlier car's head a 'mare' to do gasket swaps and torqueing down on? Something tells me there'll be some Triumph reference books on my Santa list this year!!

Regards,

Ian 

[SixasStandard]

Clive,

I'm interested in your comments regarding the improvement of the Mk1 rear suspension set-up, but realise that this thread isn't the right place to discuss it further...…..so I'll raise another thread in the appropriate section of the Forum and perhaps you could go into greater detail?

Many thanks,

Ian

 

 

[dougbgt6]

Ian,

Welcome! You will quickly learn that threads jump off in all directions here, no need to start another thread in the “right” place.

Stick with the Alpine, nice car. The Sunbeam Club meet on the same night as TSSC at the Shire Horse, Tigers and Alpines, a lovely noise!

Doug

[daverclasper]

Hi Ian and welcome

I have a Mk1 Vitesse and love it.  I went for this model, as prefer the more 60's body and dash detailing.

I understand the manifold gasket sealing (not sure about head gasket) can be more tricky on the earlier models, though haven't had to address this myself, as has been basically dead reliable in my 6 years (quite a few simple jobs, though seems pretty sorted now) and 16000 miles of ownership (dam, Iv'e said it now).

Dave 

Edited November 21, 2019 by daverclasper

[SixasStandard]

Thanks Doug...….and yes, the Alpine will see the road again...….but I need some classic 'drive time' in the meantime. The Vitesse is a superb car...….so an easy decision really!!

Regards,

Ian

[Paul H]

Just now, SixasStandard said:

Thanks Doug...….and yes, the Alpine will see the road again...….but I need some classic 'drive time' in the meantime. The Vitesse is a superb car...….so an easy decision really!!

Regards,

Ian

Hi Ian noticed your spec is not to have a sunroof .  Having a sunroof gives the best of both worlds as sometimes the cockpit does get a tad warm even with heat insulation . Just my pennies worth 

Paul 

[SixasStandard]

Hello Dave,

There is certainly plenty of support for the Mk1 on the Forum, and I'll be interested to see what people have to say on the separate thread I've started specifically about the rear suspension systems on both Mks. The Mk1 does certainly have a more 60s look, although I have to admit that I like both versions aesthetically.

Whichever one I go for in the end I know it will be a superb car...…..it's a Vitesse after all!!

Regards,

Ian

 

[SixasStandard]

Hello Paul,

The sunroof thing is a bit of a long held prejudice of mine I'm afraid...….I just think that they spoil the look of the car, and introduce the risk of leaks...….so right or wrong I tend to avoid them like the plague. I guess that I'm just going to have to see what cars are available out there...…..it's all very well me being picky, but at the end of the day I'll be constrained by availability/price.

Time will tell.

Ian

[Pete Lewis]

had a britax  ( webasto ) on my Vit6  rarely opened   just makes a lot of wind noise and buffeting, even with windows open anyone in the back had a bad hair day 

or went deaf  with the wind .

its never leaked in all the years of ownership,  sorry   but not very useful , you gain a bit of head room 

Pete

[SixasStandard]

Crikey!...…..the 'bad hair day' thing would be a major issue in our household...….the better half's barnet is a major ongoing project, so any turbulence induced damage would result in me getting a right 'handbaggin'...…...definitely no sunroof then!!

Ian 

[Pete Lewis]

i think thats wise , its a must have  you dont  need 

overdrive    is a definite  advantage  or fit a 3.63: 1   diff as a cheaper option 

Pete

[SixasStandard]

Pete, just to add to the current 'scope creep' of my initial thread...... can I ask your opinion on the Ford Type 9 gearbox conversions that are out there? If a good car came up that fitted my wish list but lacked an O/D box......would it be better to consider a Type 9, or else get hold of a correct spec O/D unit?

Ian 

[Pete Lewis]

typr 9 conversions are less these days , maybe boxes are gettin as rare as ours

good conversions with the gear stick remote shortened work well the box is pretty bullet proof 

Overdrive   there is a smile appears when overtaking in 3rd and a flick drops the power band for a song on the exhaust unfortunate with triumph ratios is 3rd OD and 4th are both almost identical,  Rootes would give you a split shift   but not triumph   so Rootes  its 6 speed  Triumph you get 5

back to the Alpine   ha !!

Pete

[SixasStandard]

Unfortunately my Alpine O/D box isn't going to be doing any singing for some time I'm afraid!

[Clive]

Type 9 boxes are getting hard to find, expect about £250-300 for one you hope is OK. In many ways the preference would be for the correct OD. A known good complete conversion set of parts will be about £700. (But remember if the T9 box is OK, you still need a bespoke prop, £150-200, an adaptor plate £100??? plus mounts, cables and so on, so the price difference soon disappears)

 

Rear suspension, the Courier spring is a stronger, less arched spring. Combined with a lowering block it gets the suspension sitting at an agreeable height, and the handling is vastly improved with no tuck-under. On a vitesse, I would remove the front ARB too (I did on the Herald to give a touch of oversteer, but as a Vitesse tends to understeer it would be very helpful, and easy to replace if desired)

Plenty of other improvements if so desired..... things like firmer front springs, and of course, using quality shocks. Then there are all the little things that can dramatically add to to make the driving experience soooooo much better, especially if you drive enthusiastically.

[Colin Lindsay]

5 minutes ago, clive said:

Rear suspension, the Courier spring is a stronger, less arched spring.

...except that you can't get any these days...!

[Guest]

Clive,

What about NJ's W58 conversion; might that be in the running as a possible ??

Personally Ian, I'd wait for a complete OE unit to surface and have that overhauled - probably cheaper in the long run without loads of added work - just a suggestion.

Regards.

Richard.